Talk:Torchwood Institute/Appearances

Organisation

As this Wiki itself admits, the Torchwood Institute is a body of people and an organisation. It is not the buildings in which the team work. Therefore, we need to include all episodes from Series Three and Four, rather than just those that include the Hub. If this list should refer to the buildings, then it requires a rename. TheFartyDoctor ^Talk 23:04, February 4, 2017 (UTC)

Definition of Institute- "an organization having a particular purpose, especially one that is involved with science, education, or a specific profession." Synonyms being establishment and organisation. States nothing about the building itself. TheFartyDoctor ^Talk 23:08, February 4, 2017 (UTC)

And this is incredibly confusing... so the newly created team in Miracle Day, is referred to simply as Torchwood (team). I think this whole Torchwood situation needs sorting out. Either the Torchwood Team is a continuous thing from the creation of the Institute itself... or we start specifying. Personally, splitting this group off is unnecessary. When Jack explains to the Tenth Doctor that after the fall of Torchwood One, he changed it, surely that was the true start of a "New Torchwood"?

It's just very confusing at the moment. I'm considering opening up a discussion about it but if we can get it done here first, I'd appreciate it. I was completely unaware of the page Torchwood (team) until I visited the Miracle Day series page... if a Torchwood lover and a constant user and editor of this Wiki, like myself, is not coming across these pages, there's a bit of a problem haha.

TheFartyDoctor ^Talk 23:34, February 4, 2017 (UTC)

Of course, Torchwood (team) is not the Torchwood Institute. Despite sharing some members, there is no official affiliation between the two. And not any story with Gwen Cooper while she's employed at Torchwood Three is an appearance of Torchwood, either, even if we do define it as the team itself. And what of Children of Earth? You could make the argument that they continue to be Torchwood Three even past the destruction of the base in that serial.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 01:09, February 5, 2017 (UTC)

At no point are Gwen, Jack and Ianto tied down to the Hub. The destruction of the Hub doesn't mean that Torchwood are disbanded. Therefore, I think it would be silly to simply state "Torchwood doesn't exist" during the final two episodes of CoE. As for the point you make for the New Torchwood during Miracle Day, that's a persuasive argument. As I remember, they do use the term "New Torchwood". Have we considered using that term instead of the very generic "Torchwood (team)"? "Torchwood (team)" could refer to all sorts of things. It could refer to the Team lead by Yvonne, or Rachel, or Jack, or the upcoming Los Angeles based team. The only thing that rules them out is that we have Torchwood One, Three etc; and we'll no doubt have "Torchwood Los Angeles". If we are going to treat the Miracle Day team as a brand new team, we need to give them a more specific name, and we need to leave Do you mean... style boxes at the top to help people get to where they want to go.

I also believe that in episode one of Miracle Day, Jack says to Esther "Welcome to Torchwood", right? So did the old Torchwood ever go away? Obviously, we'd exclude the short period where Gwen and Rhys live alone with Anwen in the middle of nowhere... but "New Torchwood"? That's the bit that needs defining, because when Jack took over, that could easily classify as New Torchwood. I just think Torchwood needs a bit of an overhaul. TheFartyDoctor ^Talk 01:25, February 5, 2017 (UTC)

Yes, they do sort of come back together in Miracle Day as "Torchwood", but remember that the Torchwood Institute is the one founded by Queen Victoria. Torchwood Three was the last remaining branch of the real Torchwood Institute, and it ceased to be not actually because the base was destroyed, but because after most of the team died, Jack left Earth and Gwen went all (in hiding) domestic for a few years. When those two come back together and use some of their old technology and expertise, it's still not the same Torchwood from previous episodes.

I would have to rewatch Miracle Day to confirm whether or not "New Torchwood" is a thing, and frankly I don't want to rewatch Miracle Day. :P

So I just searched within Chakoteya's fan transcripts. And it turns out the only recorded use of "new Torchwood" is in fact in Lost Souls. Said by Martha Jones...before Children of Earth even happens. So there's that.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 05:18, February 5, 2017 (UTC)

So if we use the definition that the Torchwood Institute is that, which was set up by Queen Victoria, we can indeed include the entirety of CoE in this list. We could argue that Jack hung on in there, and in the CoE final moments, he finally lets go of the legacy. The next problem is... how do we deal with "New Torchwood"? Especially since I'm evidently wrong about having heard the phrase, according to Chakoteya's wonderful transcripts? I just wonder whether there's a synonym of "team" that has much more meaning to it rather than "group of people". I think we can all agree that Torchwood is far more than just some random group of people. And how does this affect the future of Torchwood?

You see, series one and two of BF Torchwood are interweaved with series one and two of the TV series. Torchwood Outbreak is set sometime before CoE. And Before the Fall is evidently set during Yvonne's time. All of which take place during the Institute. I haven't yet heard The Torchwood Archives, so I'd appreciate no spoilers, however it's evident that it's set at the end of the universe (or thereabouts) and it's looking back. Where do we go for the third series of BF Torchwood? Some stories are evidently set after Miracle Day... I'm interested to know how we're going to handle it. TheFartyDoctor ^Talk 06:35, February 5, 2017 (UTC)