Talk:Myloki

Split?

Should this page be split as the Mysterons link here, I know that the Myloki are an expy of the Mysterons but the Mysterons played a core part in the later TV21 strips and if Captain Scarlet has a separate page to their indestructible man version should not the Mysterons then get one? Anastasia Cousins ☎ 21:13, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

I see no reason not to. Cookieboy 2005 ☎ 21:20, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Anastasia, you're right that between this page and Captain Scarlet's, our treatment of The Indestructible Man is inconsistent right now. The Myloki are explicitly a code name for the real species name in the novel, and if they weren't named, they would definitely qualify for the "Mysteron" page name with the {{conjecture}}, per the Talk:Legacies (short story) precedent often cited by Najawin among others. Because of this, I think the fix to the inconsistency should be to merge Paul Metcalf and Grant Matthews, as I illustrated at User:NateBumber/Sandbox/Captain Scarlet, not to split this page. – n8 (☎) 02:43, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

i apologise for my delay I do would take either as long as all the information for both pages was used as well as fleshing out the Mysteron segment of the hypothetical merge. The would also lead to several other mergers however such ad combining Conrad Turner and Captain Death as well as the various other Spectrum members as the SILOET stand ins. I do have one point against this though the fact that Several Characters are reminiscent of the characters from UFO and the moonbase Uniform from UFO is explicitly used, UFO a happens in the 1980’s not the 2060’s of the Supermarination of Captain Scarlet. Other minor contradictions include the events of Space 1999 being mentioned happening around the same time as the title suggest this show happens in 1999. However I would be 100% in favour of the merger is Ceol is merged with Kelsey Hooper as it seems to me the case is similar. Due to the Fact that not only are they implied to be the same (even more so than the Gerry Anderson Characters in the Indestructible man) I would argue that both the Indestructible Man Characters and Ceol deserve to be merged with their respective originals and to merge only the Gerry Anderson Charters would suggest, in My personal opinion a level of bias towards one group. I would stand by either decision to split this page or two merge all the IM/GA Characters along with pages like Ceol/ Kelsey. Once more I apologise for the lateness of my reply. It was due to several events as well as simply forgetting I posted here for a while. Sorry I will try not to do so again.Anastasia Cousins ☎ 20:57, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

I just want to step in and clarify that Ceol/Kelsey is not going to happen as of current policy — it is baked into T:VS and T:MERGE that we do not acknowledge unlicensed use of DWU characters. The proposal to accept the Indestructible Man characters and species as their Anderson counterparts relies on the fact that, despite the plentiful crossovers both overt and not, the Gerry Anderson shows remain their own franchise, so that it's not really our concern whether a given Anderson element is licensed or not — much as we don't twist ourselves in knots about whether John Steed's appearances in Party Animals and The Sleuth Slayers were licensed. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 00:48, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Then I guess the Indestructible man and Gerry Anderson characters should not be merged for the same reason Ceol and Kelsey should not merged and thus a new page for the Mysterons should be created. Whilst you say that we should not worry about weather it was licensed or not bring ups Steed, in this case it matters and in Indestructible man The Characters all go by different names and thus should be considered different characters, and so a new page for the Mysterons should be created. One part was licensed (the TVC21) whilst one was unlicensed stand in’s (Indestructible Man) and so I would argue that we should split this page and create one for the Mysterons. If Kelsey dose not qualify for “Homeworld treatment” then the Myloki/Mysterons should not qualify either. Personally for these licensing quakes we really need sorghum these out when we get forums back.Anastasia Cousins ☎ 12:45, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Either I'm not understanding you, you're not understanding me, or both. The Gerry Anderson characters are a completely different situation from inherently-DWU characters like Kelsey, and this is true even if there were also licensed crossover appearances. See also Spock's unlicensed cameo in Between the Wars, the treatment of which is not affected by the existence, or not, of a licensed Who/Star Trek crossover decades apart. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 14:10, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

I think their may have been a misunderstanding on one party (not sure which, probably my fault either way) but my point in a meandering round about way was that because they are under different names (not like previous crossovers) to the main source (TVC21) they should be kept separate bar the behind them scenes section and thus a Mysteron page should be created. On a side note however the Thunderbirds technical debut in their crossover story predating their appearance on screen by a few weeks, not sure if the same applies the Captain Scarlet)Anastasia Cousins ☎ 19:20, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

See Life-spore and Xenomorph for pseudo precedence? It's a bit closer than the Spock example, though it's been a contentious subject, and I think that I might even have changed my mind. (Provided that the main page name is the DWU page name, rather than the OOU concept it's associated with.) Najawin ☎ 19:26, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

so are we in agreement? We split the Page? I would like to add I am not the best at computers I would not really know how to do it on my own? And I just want to double check then is the page to be split? Anastasia Cousins ☎ 13:34, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

Just wanna live a little disclaimer re: life-spores and xenomorphs, as life-spores in their story are depicted as a species that, in other words, inspired the fictional film series Alien. They're very similar, but with enoguh in-text evidence to perhaps merit keeping the pages apart.

EPSILON^🔎 |📯|📂|📦|📝

13:42, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

well in some cases the Gerry Anderson Characters are depicted as fictional, namely a reference to Captain Scarlet but also like the Xenomorphes have significant presence in in the Universe that they also exist as well as having an in universe version distinct from their true version as well. Of course the IM characters are not the inspiration for the Gerry Anderson Characters who also undeniable exist in the 2060’s (or 2080’s) but I believe they are distinct enough to merit individual pages the Mysterons and Myloki powers are subtly different and Captain Black and Death are very different individuals. So?Anastasia Cousins ☎ 15:02, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

another quick point I would like to make is that the stand in for Colnal White is also a Stand in for Ed Straker of SHADO who dose not exist in any crossovers with who and thus would also merit keeping the pages split as well as creating a new page for the Mysterons. Anastasia Cousins ☎ 15:05, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

I think you misunderstood my point: In The Annotated Autopsy of Agent A, a species that reproduces via mushroom-like spores that came from an asteroid which was discovered by a small mining vessel before their backstory got retroactively complicated, came to Earth as part of their plan to go back to the start of time to do nefarious timey-wimey stuff, so they inserted themselves into 20th century Earth's popular culture to give them the boost they need to go back in time. The implication is this is the cause (i.e. in-universe inspiration) for the Alien movies, not that the implication that the life-spores are xenomorphs; there are many differences between the life-spores and xenomorphs, such as their method of reproduction being almost entirely different; they're not meant to be the same species. A closer, hypothetical analogy would be if Grant Matthews had, in The Indestructible Man, went back and time and got a marionette children's program made about his life in the guise of fiction.

EPSILON^🔎 |📯|📂|📦|📝

15:12, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

Split Part 2. More information

I would like to reopen the debate of splitting this page and creating a new Mysteron Page and the previous debate did not reach a consensus. I have begun reread the Indestructible Man and have realised that the stand ins are very different to the cast of Captain Scarlet. Let’s start with the Doctor Fawn Stand in Doctor Koslovski. Koslovski is describe as being the one to perform the first examination of Mathews after he becomes indestructible, as does Fawn, both are described as being the person with the most knowledge of the Mysterons/Myloki. This is where the similarities end. Fawn is Australian, Koslovski is Russian. Fawns knows a little about the Mysterons, Koslovski actually know almost none and plays it all by guesswork. now let’s look at green and his stand in Neville Verdana. Green is an all round nice guy who never showed any animosity towards Scarlet and was kind and friendly and was a strong supporter of SPECTRUM. Neville Verdana is a bitter man who resents Mathews for his looks and indestructibility and sold out PRISUM simply because is blamed them for everything wrong with his life. Not to mention in the original Captain Scarlet there are no secret Mysteron codes to attempt to decode as the Mysterons outright say what they are going to do in their famous threats I.E. “this is the voice of the Mysterons, we know that you can here us earth men. We will continue to take our revenge for the destruction of our Martian complex. At 12 noon tomorrow we will destroy Cloudbase” whilst Neville Verdana gets cancer from trying, an failing, to decode Myloki messages. This also shows a Major difference between the Myloki and the Mysterons one makes threats the other does not. Another difference is that Mathews car is destroyed by a Myloki spaceship. The Mysterons never use spaceships except for attack on Cloudbase (not a valid source) which terns out to be a dream and another comic not published by TVC21 which is not valid either and does not really fit with the lore either. To me it seems the Myloki are far closer to the Aliens in UFO (which is not valid here) than the Mysterons. Another fact is the way the Myloki duplicate. The Myloki have two types of duplicates the relatively obvious Shiners and the discrete identical duplicates of the Indestructible men of which there are two. Meanwhile the Mysteron duplicates are always visible identical and always act almost exactly the same as the person they are duplicating and more than two are indestructible and in fact it is implied that Black is neither a duplicate or Indestructible. This brings me on to my final point Black and Death. Black is cool calm and collected whilst Death a vicious monster who instead of avoiding confrontation seeks out people to kill. He does not speak and is implied to be no longer sentient. I believe that these differences are enough to keep the pages separate and grant the Mysterons their own page. Whilst I would like them to be merged I do not believe enough similarities exist between the two narratives to link them as one, and merge the character pages. Indestructible man is a deconstruction (an affectionate deconstruction but a deconstruction nonetheless) of the Worlds of Gerry Anderson. Counter arguments are welcomed.Anastasia Cousins ☎ 16:44, 22 February 2023 (UTC)