Howling:Midnight Entity

Template:Forum archives header I signed up just to discuss this theory, and its probably easily dismissed, but could the midnight entity possibly be The Master? I think its possible. From what i read about how in "The Waters of Mars" section, a scene where the doctor says he's there and there hasn't been any knocking and then suddenly there is a a knocking four times reminds me of the Midnight Entity. It also would help make sense as to why the Midnight Entity wanted to get rid of the doctor so much and The Master always did have that ability to persuade, just like the entity did with the other passengers in making it believe that the doctor was the bad one. Any thoughts?

I'm a separate person, and I think this is correct. I have also developed a little theory for how he appeared on Midnight, and I think it is connected to both 'The Waters of Mars' and the ring...114.76.162.83 23:17, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

Please make sure to sign your posts! Type four tildes ( ~~~~ ) or hit the "signature" button (it's the fourth from the left) at the end of your post. Monkey with a Gun 03:48, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Alright, if the Midnight Entity is the Master, here's my theory for how it happened, though its a bit weird. First, we need to know who it was who picked up the ring. That will probably be revealed in End of Time. If it fell into Donna's hands, then possibly the consciousness inside the ring could have escaped onto Midnight. It said 'It's waited so long'. That could be how it felt to the creature, or it could have escaped the TARDIS during its course to Midnight and arrived anywhere on that planet's timeline. Now, if it was just a consciousness at the time, we still need to find how it could knock, or cast a shadow (though it (the shadow) have been a figment of the mechanic's imagination, caused by psychic influence, and the knocking could have been actually cooling, but its precision being under the creature's influence. From there, it uses its (unhindered by bodily limits) psychic abilities to cause the short-lived, but violent events before possessing Sky. Having been through the Time Vortex, and hypnotic abilities being possibly able to (albeit inaccurately) predict the mind patterns of beings, this would have been strengthened through its unprotected time travel, and so it could use this to guess speech patterns in order to mimic. I'm sure we can now easily guess the rest up to the end of Midnight.114.76.162.83 23:34, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

I think most of the clues as to who picked up the ring indicate it was Lucy Saxon (the laugh, the nail polish, et cetera). I personally don't really want the Midnight Entity to tie into the Master storyline; I prefer it ambiguous. Monkey with a Gun 04:36, September 27, 2009 (UTC)

Neither do I, that's just my theory on that theory. But I am still dying to know what it was!114.76.162.83 09:51, September 27, 2009 (UTC)

Another theory suggests that Donna picked up the Ring, seeing as Donna wasn't present, she could've been possessed by the Ring and she could've then been the Midnight entity, with no memories when she returns. She could've passed the Master's consciousness into Sky, but that would mean the Master's dead. But they'll find a way around it. Also, I doubt this'll actually happen, seeing as the Xtonic radiation would've killed Donna. Still, if it is true, they'll find a way around it. Bigredrabbit 05:28, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

It is possible seeing as Donna didn't play a very big part in it, that Donna is sometimes (when the doctor isn't around) controlled by the master and he uses his powers of telepathy and starts influencing the events on the bus, slowly taking people over. Saxon 3 15:56, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Maybe the Midnight Entity could be the Trickster 91.106.52.18 17:01, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

No, The Trickster is Sarah Janes enemy, otherwise all the attention would be on The Doctor.

the trickster is also in some ways the doctors enemy, The trickster for some reason wanted to remove the Doctor from time. Remember Turn left? 91.106.52.18 19:16, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

The Trickster wanted to remove The Doctor from time because it would cause chaos. But thinking about it - if the doctor was removed from time the time lords and daleks would never have died.Saxon 3 19:41, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

I'm curious as to why nobody has mentioned the Black Guardian. He would likely be one of the highest order of the Pantheon of Discord, not to mention we see him talking with Turlogh through a crystalline gem. He has been wanting the Doctor dead since 'The Armageddon Factor' though he can not act directly in the affairs of ephemirals. We also hear the Trickster comment on the Doctor possessing the Key to Time; I wonder if that's a bone for the old school fans.

Maybe the Black Guardian, The Midnight Entity and the trickster are the same character 91.106.52.18 21:31, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Finally people are starting to acknowledge the Black Guardian. I've been saying this ages ago. Its definitely the Black Guardian or it could be a tie in to lead to the Black Guardian. RTD has brought back every main villain from the old series. Daleks, Cybermen, The Master, and Davros. The only two left are The Black Guardian and the Rani so with this in mind and with RTD leaving could he want to bring them back before he leaves to complete his quest??? Michael Downey 11:54, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

Right, just to get things clear. It is obvious (and been stated) that the old series stories have nothing to do with the new series. There have been no references to the black guardian, the trickster is not the midnight entity and has nothing to do with the doctor who xmas specials. Neither does the midnight entity, there is no evidence to suggest it. The villain for the last specials is the master - if you include stuff like the black guardian and the trickster and the midnight entity you make it overcomplicated. Since the last 2 specials don't just occur on earth, it is possible that some previous time lords are coming back. Saxon 3 12:03, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

Has it been confirmed that the main villain will be the master?? No RTD has stated that most of the characters appear through flashbacks because the doctor is coming to the end of his life, how do we not not know the master and Lucy are apart of his dreams/nightmares ? PS Bit of a coincidence that the knocking in the waters of the mars sounds EXACTLY like the knocking in Midnight. Michael Downey 12:20, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

Yes it has been confirmed by David Tennant, Julie Gardener, John Simm himself and various other people. Plus it's says so on BBC's Doctor Who website. And yes SOME people will be in PREMONITIONS including Ood Sigma. Also The Master's return has also been confirmed by David Harewood who plays Joshua Naismith. As for the knocking in waters of mars and midnight, Yes it is a COINCIDENCE. Stop over complicating things.

Actually no it's not a coincidence - because THE DOCTOR knocked four times to see if the entity replied and The entity just COPIED him. So NO THE MIDNIGHT ENTITY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH EITHER THE MASTER OR ANY OF THE OTHER CHRISTMAS SPECIALS OR WATERS OF MARS. FULL STOP Saxon 3 12:08, November 8, 2009 (UTC)

I am another user and i believed that the MIDNIGHT ENTITY is the BEAST. The beast( a very powerful being)could have survived the blast from the rocket and the midnight entity said he needed a body and that he had been waiting a long time. so maybe...

the candidates for the real identity for he Midnight Entity are either the Master, the Trickster or the Black Guardian 91.104.46.173 07:45, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

The Midnight Monster has nothing to do with either the Black Guardian, the Master or Trickster. Timothy Dalton is the villain in the End of Time. He will knock four times, and it is Gallifrey that is returning through the dark. Matt Smith will be set up with a clean slate.

maybe the Timothy Dalton character is the Black Guardian. 91.104.46.173 07:19, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

Oh yes, that explains why he is dressed up as a timelord.Saxon 3 15:44, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

O.K Sarcastic they where only speculating lol Michael Downey 15:58, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

I think it is very likely that the Midnight Entity was a creature that evolved on Midnight, attacked the Doctor in Midnight and will never be seen again. I'm A Hydroponic Tomato! Bigredrabbit 01:05, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

the Doctor seemed to be the Main Target of The Midnight Entity and wanted to kill the Doctor, Maybe the Midnight Entity could actually be The Masters psychic Telepathic influence that he could use on the ood in The End of Time, remember that picture of the Doctor kneeling to the Red Eye ood Sigma (Who could be possessed by the Master or Midnight Entity), maybe he is kneeling because the Doctor is paralyzed like in Midnight. 91.104.36.181 21:44, November 23, 2009 (UTC)

After watching the episode Midnight like a billions times (I love the episode that much), I noticed more and more things. I looked into its behavior, and what enemy of the Doctor is most relates to. We mustn't forget that it wanted him dead with an utter rage- but why? As soon as the passangers got hold of him, Midnight, possessing Sky, shouted in the most satisfied manner, "THROW HIM OUT! GET RID OF HIM! NOW!"

The above shows its hatred towards the Doctor.

Some of its quotes were:

"He's waited so long, in the cold, the dark, and the diamonds..." - Midnight and "That's how he does it, he makes you fight, he creeps into your head, and whispers... Listen, just listen... That's him, inside-" - Midnight

Midnight refers to itself as 'he', making it all the more suspicious. And in the others of Donna Noble, "Do you think its still out there?"

Midnight knocked four times; the music that played with the four knocks prophecy was 'Midnight', and the same music that played when Midnight began knocking. So Midnight is 'he', knocking four times, and Midnight was ' waiting in the dark'? That's very Russel T. Davies, he plays with words and places clues as to who or what is returning. Note: he wrote Midnight, he normally only writes episodes that he importance.

And really, the Doctor had never been so scared- his fear in Midnight mimicked his fear after hearing about the four knocks, too. Plus, the entity had never attacked before... it only attacked when the Doctor came, and it targeted him as if they had met once before, with utter hatred towards him. The Doctor himself asks the entity why it targeted him and theorized about it, but then said, "But your eyes, they're saying something else..." The passengers themselves highlight to viewers that 'think about it, though, that knocking. In the 'next time' trailer for Midnight, you clearly hear a notable 'knock, knock, knock, knock' coming from the entity. Delton Menace 15:30, November 25, 2009 (UCT)

the Midnight Entity could either be the Masters power of telepathy, the devil, The Trickster or the Black Guardian. who do you think the real identity of the Midnight creature is? 91.104.36.181 21:35, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

Original poster here, and i just wanted to say that all the speculation on here is great.. seeing things that i didn't pick up on and all that makes it more interesting. To those who flat out deny that the midnight entity will not be the villain of "The End of Time" i just have to say "Well Obviously". I wasn't implying that the Midnight Entity is the villain in that story rather than the Master, I was instead implying the opposite, that The Master was the Midnight Entity in the episode "Midnight". I think you should stop with the TYPING IN ALL CAPS because really it's a bit childish, after all this is just a bit of fun speculation. So just to be clear one more time, i never implied that the Midnight Entity is the final villain just because of the "Knocking four times" thing, but that the Master was the villain in "Midnight, or some form of the Master at least. I hope that clears things up for what i mentioned.

Now as for the Black Guardian being the midnight entity, firstly, i don't know much about the black guardian since I've only read of him and never seen any old episodes with him yet. I highly doubt that RTD would want to bring back the black guardian at this point in time since it would be a bit ridiculous to pack so many past villains into "The End of Time". Then again, if the rumors are true about the Time Lords returning, who knows.

As for the Trickster, i feel that this is nothing like his work. It seemed more personal and while, yes, he does have a hatred for Sarah Jane, it just seemed to focused on one person. The doctor was able to identify the large beetle on Donna's back as part of the Trickster's brigade so i imagine he has a knowledge for Trickster's powers and creatures.

Back to the Midnight Entity, maybe it'll never be resolved in the series, which i think is both good and bad. We can keep speculating and speculating and come up with our own theories, which is good, but chances are we'll never know what it was or see it again, which is kind of sad.

I think it would be awesome if a book or something explored it further and it did turn out to be The Master.

Anyways, Back to speculating! --Rawrgoaway 12:08, November 26, 2009 (UTC)

• rolls eyes* The thing is, the Master is not the one knocking, and he isn't the big bad villain in The End of Time. In one scene befor ethe Doctor communicates with Midnight, you hear a drum beat followed by a tap, tap, tap, tap, and that happens right before the Doctor asks why Midnight choose him. In the next time trailer, four knocks can be heard. In the episode, four knocks can be heard. When warned about the four knock, the music that played was the same music that played when Midnight began knocking: uh-oh, they used Midnight's theme in the four knocks prophecy. And the Master isn't the one knocking, either. And Midnight is male, don't overlook that. Midnight even mentioned the dark, and how he had waited until they... Well, he waited until the Docto came!

As for who Midnight - it is quite and very obvious that it will be returning (I watched the episode so many times, I noticed how the four knocks prophecy for the End of Time clicked right with the episode Midnight) - I believe he (Midnight) is the Beast, whose number - 666 - keeps coming up like Bad Wolf did. And adding to that, 666 came up in the episode Midnight.

Midnight and Planet of the Dead (which foreshadowsed The End of Time) both contained the four knocks, knocking, Midnight's theme to go with the knocking in both episodes, 666 came up in both episodes.

Personal conclusion: Midnight = the Beast, and returning in The End of Time (the Beast's returning, no doubt about that). They have some scary similarities: posession, the Doctor didn't understand neither of them, they had both been waiting a long time, they were both assosiated with the dark, and big fat thing: they're both male and also goes by the term 'it' as well. Oh, and the Doctor noted how the Beast couldn't talk and he was just a body, the physical form. Midnight couldn't talk, either.

The Beast: "he who baths in the black sun" and "the bring of night" Midnight Entity: "throw him out, into the sun, and the night"

When Midnight first looked at the Doctor through Sky for the first time, the expression on his/her/its face was an expression that shadowed they had met before, and he/it was vengful. Delton Menace 02:20, December 2, 2009 (UTC)

There are a number of possible beings that could or could not be seeking revenge with the Doctor. Listed below are some of these possible villains that could return.

• The Black Guardian
• The Rani
• The Destroyer
• The Beast (I.E) The Conection with the beasts
• Could be someone knew that seeks revenge. --Catkind121 20:26, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

Delton Menace i think you are quite right about the Beast being the real identity of the Midnight Monster,i think the main villan in the End of Time is not the master, the main Villan in the End of Time is going to be the Beast.91.106.29.156 23:57, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

The entity doesn't necessarily refer to itself as "he". The "he" is a transference of the blame for the situation to the Doctor; if it had been a Time Lady (instead of Lord) like Romana, Jenny, etc., it probably would have adjusted accordingly. As for its identity, it would be rather more frightening, I think, if it isn't any past 'villain' at all, but an extraneous (literally, 'from outside,' i.e. the universe) being in its own right; for as H.P. Lovecraft can be quoted: "...Men...will always tremble at the thought of the hidden and fathomless worlds of strange life which may pulsate in the gulfs beyond the stars, or press hideously upon our own globe in unholy dimensions which only the dead and the moonstruck can glimpse." (Supernatural Horror in Literature) People run away from the unexplained. Thus, here's hoping they bring it back in another story someday (suitably rarely), but ultimately explain nothing. --ChrisK 11:14, May 3, 2010 (UTC)

The entity does refer to itself as he, or it refers to another male. It says, "He's waited so long, in the cold, the dark, and the diamonds... until you came, bodies to hot, with blood, and pain." Who the hell could that be refering to? Only itself, or an unidentified related entity. Delton Menace 12:24, May 3, 2010 (UTC)

The Lovecraft quote reminded me of something. Lovecraft usually referred to the Old Ones as "he", but this didn't necessarily mean they were male in any meaningful sense. Even "the monstrous nuclear chaos beyond angled space which the Necronomicon had mercifully cloaked under the name of Azathoth" is called "he", but I doubt that nuclear chaos is male in any anatomical, progenerative, or even psychological sense.

That's just the way English works. Other Indo-European languages don't have this problem. They have gender all over the place; a female dog is still masculine "el perro" in Spanish, and a car is both masculine "der Wagon" and neuter "das Auto", and that's not a problem for anyone. But in English, gender only exists on pronouns, and it's become unavoidably linked with sex. You can't use a pronoun for someone or something without specifying it as male, female, or inanimate.

So, just because the Midnight entity is "he" doesn't mean it's a male being, any more than Azathoth is. The line "he/she has waited so long..." would probably sound as silly to people in the 27th century as it does today. --Falcotron 15:06, May 3, 2010 (UTC)

Midnight was set in the 27th century? I don't remember any date being specified... Delton Menace 00:28, May 7, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I couldn't remember when it happened, so I looked at Midnight (TV story), and that's what the infobox says. Looking further down the page, "This story takes place in the 27th century according to REF: The Time Traveller's Almanac, although the book does not explain how this date was arrived at."

Anyway, even if it's the 23rd century or the 51st or whatever, as long as people are speaking English, "he/she" will sound silly, and the problem with pronouns will still exist. --Falcotron 02:34, May 7, 2010 (UTC)

I have some theories on the midnight entity, maybe its that thing in the white void, that we saw in the mind robber. Remember it could read minds show zoe and jaimie their homes, and for some reason it wanted them to leave the tardis, we never found out what that was either, some people say that it was the master [from the land of fiction], but its never really confirmed. I used to wonder what the hell that was it would be cool if the midnight entity and the mind robber entity were the same monster, though we still wouldn't know what it was. Other theory it might not be the beast but it could be a demon like it or abaddon, remember in torchwood one of them said that there are beasts like that all over the universe entombed in planets waiting to get out, it could have got wind of what the doctor did to the beast, the same way the beast was able to find out all those things about the people [killer of his kind etc] and thats why it wanted him out of the way because he was a threat. It may even have wanted revenge as it could have ben the beasts son like abbadon was. Maybe the mind robber entity is one of those demons, though i should save that for a mind robber entity forum. Winehousefan 21:50 May 7 2010 [UTC]

I personally agree with the idea that the midnight entity is The Beast because remember how the beast was just a physical form? and The Doctor said they must've locked away his body and mind seperatly? well wouldn't it make sense to put the body somewhere it would be destroyed if it tryed to escape and put the mind somewhere no living creature could ever go? Thats just my personal opinion of course.Berfomet 21:14, May 7, 2010 (UTC)

Well, wasn't the mind what possessed Toby and the Ood there? It fell into the black hole, right? Cannon881 10:18, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

Could the midnight entiry have something to do with the time lords, not neccessarily the master but remember it was the time lords who sent the four knocks into his head because its the heartbeat of a time lord [only thing is there would be no reason for them to do that to it like they did the master] but still it could do, that would explain its uncontrollable hatred for the doctor. I'm trying to think of other mysterious monsters from doctor who that we never found out about the mind robber entity is the only one I can think of like the midnight entity, but if there is anymore can you let me know. Winehousefan 16:49 May 8 2010 [UTC]

One thing to remember is that Midnight was written as a last-second replacement episode. On the one hand, this means RTD knew how the entire story arc was going to play out before he even started writing it. But, on the other hand, it means that whatever he designed for that episode wasn't part of any of his multi-story plans. And it means he had to rush the story, too.

Given all that, I think the Midnight entity was just what it appears to be--an unknown, unseen enemy whose identity is as mysterious to RTD as it is to the Doctor and us. (Insert your favorite Lovecraft quote about the unknown enemy being scarier.)

Of course that doesn't mean that Moff couldn't bring back the Midnight entity and do whatever he wants with it. But I think, even if he brought it back, he'd do the same thing, and retain the mystery to keep it scary. --Falcotron 17:59, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

Who knows maybe the 11th doctor will go back to midnight in a hopes to find out what the mysterious creature was?Berfomet 23:06, May 8, 2010 (UTC)

Or Maybe its real identity will never be revealed, just like the Stig from Top Gear 91.104.17.31 13:31, May 14, 2010 (UTC)