Forum:Companions - who counts?
Template:Companions of the Eleventh Doctor list Kazran, Abigail, and Canton as single-adventure companions. Can they really count? They only appeared in one story and were never referred to as companion by the BBC (unlike Astrid, Adelaide etc.).
By that logic, characters such as Richard Mace, Lieutenant Carstairs, Charles Dickens and at least one character from every story would count as a companion. TemporalSpleen 09:59, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
Why are my edits being reverted? What makes them companions? TemporalSpleen 11:19, May 2, 2011 (UTC)
- These are 'one of companions'. Who are companions for a single story. We have decided as a community, as a wiki, to include these people as companions. We do not strictly follow who the BBC labels a companions and not. There is a lot of grey area here, so we decided to decide who is a companion ourselves, and not who the BBC says is one. That's the reason we have a lot of 'single adventure' companions. Mini-mitch\talk 11:25, May 2, 2011 (UTC)
Actually Mitch-mitch, the guy has a point. There are characters that I would class as companions based on the suggestion that Canton is. The examples presented by the above users are great example of this.----Skittles the hog--Talk 11:48, May 2, 2011 (UTC)
- I think if The Doctor invites them to travel in the TARDIS and they help him out in saving the person/town/world, then they should be classed as a companion. 92.7.200.222 12:12, May 2, 2011 (UTC)
- I agree. To be a companion of any sort, in any way, shape, or possibility, a person must accept an offer (or be allowed) to regularly travel with the Doctor. Therefore, Canton does not count, because he was more or less an 'incidental companion'--he was helping the Doctor, and shared an adventuree with him, but to help the Doctor, he incidentally ended up taking a few trips in the TARDIS. --Bold Clone 14:10, May 2, 2011 (UTC)
What I suggest we do, is have the infobox as all the companions who are actually companions (i.e a BC said, "a person must accept an offer (or be allowed) to regularly travel with the Doctor." with the expection of people like Christina de Souza, Adelaide Brooke etc (i.e. people who the BBC say re the companions). and then, have a link to the disputed companions section of the companion list. The disputed companions would be anyone who does not for the description of the companion, but people still see as companion, in this case Canton Delaware. But because wouldn't see them as companion, this on the disputed list would be Allies, those who are companions are companions.
The only problem with this is deciding who is a companion and who's disputed. Mini-mitch\talk 14:42, May 2, 2011 (UTC)
- I think the simplest way to decide who a companion is is to use somthing similar to my definition--they must accept an offer to travel with the Doctor in the TARDIS. The BBC, even if it is inconsistant, would be official also. Anyone outside of the basic definition and the BBC would therefore be up for dispution. --Bold Clone 14:51, May 2, 2011 (UTC)
- An offer or allowed works for the Doctor. Particularly the allowed part as Ian, Barbara, Dodo, Ben and Polly and Tegan all walked in and weren't really invited. Though the allowed part does get a bit murky in relation to Jackie Tyler.
- Also of note we have had this discussion before: Forum:Disputed Companions and Forum:Who counts as a companion?. --Tangerineduel / talk 15:28, May 2, 2011 (UTC)
- Even putting characters like Canton in the disputed companions section could lead to very long lists. And if you're saying that they would be allies, why not simply have an allies page. Disputed should be for chatacters such as the Brigadier, Jackie Tyler etc.; characters who appeared in numerous stories but never travelled in the TARDIS across stories. TemporalSpleen 16:46, May 2, 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, I agree with the above. I think the Brig can be placed in companions as he's pretty much a consistent ally and he travels in the TARDIS upon occasion. ----Skittles the hog--Talk 16:48, May 2, 2011 (UTC)
- To be disputed, they would still need to fall into certain conditions. I.e, recurring and helps the Doctor, travels in the TARDIS and helps the Doctor (i.e Jackie Tyler, Vincent van Gogh, Canton Delaware). These people would be in the Allies category, as they don't fall into the companion role, but do more than to just be regarded as Allies. A disputed companion category would be silly, as people would just add anyone they want. The List of companions is easy to monitor, so anything daft that is add will be revert.
As for the navigation box, only those who are diffidently in the companion category will be listed, and there will be a link to the disputed list (no disputed companion will have the nav box on their page and won't be named in nav box either). Mini-mitch\talk 17:21, May 2, 2011 (UTC)
- It seems kind of strange to list Canton as a companion or disputed companion just because he travelled in the TARDIS and helped the Doctor. By that logic, Duggan should be considered a disputed companion as he travelled in the TARDIS and saved the world, as should Nasreen Chaudhry, Laurence Scarman, all the soldiers from Earthshock, and dozens of other characters who were only in one episode. It would make more sense if a companion was somebody who was credited as the costar for more than one episode, like Jo Grant or Amy Pond, a disputed companion was somebody who was a major recurring character who sometimes travelled with the Dotor and helped him out, like Jackie Tyler, the Brigadier, and River Song, and people like Canton and Duggan weren't listed as anything.Icecreamdif 22:23, May 2, 2011 (UTC)
- I agree. That's probably the best way to do it, with Canton and Duggan in an "allies" category. TemporalSpleen 06:29, May 3, 2011 (UTC)
- We currently have three list: Companions, disputed companions and recurring characters. I suggest we leave recurring characters, create a new list cats 'List of allies'. The list of allies would be all the allies, and then we get rid of the disputed companions complete and make them either companions or allies. The majority of them would be Allies, but if we decide what makes a companion, using ideas we have discussed, it could be a way we could go. Mini-mitch\talk 15:20, May 3, 2011 (UTC)
- We do already have Category:Allies of the Doctor, with the various sub-categories for each Doctor.
- If there is a need to have a list of allies for clarity with the list of companions, then we would just need to reproduce (and keep updated with the category) the content of this category and sub categories. --Tangerineduel / talk 16:01, May 3, 2011 (UTC)
- Going back to the original question in this thread, Abigail and Kazran are very definitely companions, and are quite different from Canton and Duggan and Richard Mace. They may only be in one episode but the narrative explicitly shows them having multiple adventures through time. Indeed, the whole point of the story is that Kazran knows the Doctor for years. As implied by the countdown on Abigail's storage unit, they have more adventures than many undisputed companions, including Harry, Romana I, Katarina, Dodo and Victoria. I'd like to think that it doesn't matter a hell of a lot who's in these navboxes, because the companion article makes it clear that there's considerable doubt as to who "counts". We've had this discussion at least three times since I first started coming here in 2007, and we never seem to resolve it. At some point, you just have to stand back and say, "There is no answer to be found here." I specifically wrote companion — especially the behind the scenes section — so as to take pressure off us to come up with a definitive list. See companion#Term as used on this wiki. Obviously, if there are really silly people on the lists — like Nero or Davros they should be taken off. But at the end of the day, it's just a navbox. It's not offered or likely received as gospel. I say get rid of the obviously silly ones — I'm gonna strike Tigella if I ever see him on the First Doctor's companion list — but otherwise, we've got more stuff to do than relitigate this.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍ <span style="">00:18:13 Sat 14 May 2011
- Going back to the original question in this thread, Abigail and Kazran are very definitely companions, and are quite different from Canton and Duggan and Richard Mace. They may only be in one episode but the narrative explicitly shows them having multiple adventures through time. Indeed, the whole point of the story is that Kazran knows the Doctor for years. As implied by the countdown on Abigail's storage unit, they have more adventures than many undisputed companions, including Harry, Romana I, Katarina, Dodo and Victoria. I'd like to think that it doesn't matter a hell of a lot who's in these navboxes, because the companion article makes it clear that there's considerable doubt as to who "counts". We've had this discussion at least three times since I first started coming here in 2007, and we never seem to resolve it. At some point, you just have to stand back and say, "There is no answer to be found here." I specifically wrote companion — especially the behind the scenes section — so as to take pressure off us to come up with a definitive list. See companion#Term as used on this wiki. Obviously, if there are really silly people on the lists — like Nero or Davros they should be taken off. But at the end of the day, it's just a navbox. It's not offered or likely received as gospel. I say get rid of the obviously silly ones — I'm gonna strike Tigella if I ever see him on the First Doctor's companion list — but otherwise, we've got more stuff to do than relitigate this.
Kazran and Abagail are not companions. They may have had multiple adventures with the Doctor over several years, but they only met him once a year and Kazran continued with his life for the rest of the year, while Abigail remained frozen. More importantly, from the Doctor's point of view, he only knew them for a few days at most. It probably makes more sense to define a companion from a real world point of view, rather than an in-universe point of view, because what a companion really is is the Doctor's co-star.Icecreamdif 03:38, May 14, 2011 (UTC)
- A companion is someone who:
- is frequently in the company of
- associates with
- accompanies
- is employed to accompany
- assists, or
- lives with another in the capacity of a helpful friend ([1])
- Kazran, Abigail and Canton all associate with, accompany and assist the Doctor, so I think (at least) these are companions. Tardis1963 10:00, May 14, 2011 (UTC)
- That seems to just confuse matters: I think a companion is a person who travel with the Doctor on more than one adventure. Unless the BBC state they are companions. Mini-mitch\talk 10:18, May 14, 2011 (UTC)
Archivist's note
As with all these companions discussions, this one ended without clear resolution.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍ <span style="">15:08: Sun 06 Nov 2011
