Forum:Proposed Deletion of Blue, Red and White humanoids - Yes or No

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As lots of you may have seen, a debate has been going on over whether or not the above pages should be deleted. These are CzechOut's reasons:

1. Racism
2. Humans are pink humanoids
3. The Beast was red and humanoid, is he a red humanoid?
4. Things aren't only the colour of their skin

The Blue Humanoid talk page states that this should be taken to the forums, so I have done so.

If you ask for my opinion, I think that they should NOT be deleted. A proposed idea was that a Unknown Species page was created, but I think that the info concerning the amount of different humanoids would get confused, and that because they clearly are different species (even if they are related), they should have their own page to seperate on piece of info from the other. A proposed reason for deletion was that the humanoids are related, but humans are related to Silurians, and do they have to share a page or have a page titled "Inhabitants of the Earth"? I think that the only thing that needs to be created is a categorie page showin Blue, Red etc humanoids. A Humanoid page has already been made that shows all humanoids such as Adipose and Weeping Angels.

Thanks. Ghastly9090 16:49, February 12, 2011 (UTC)

Unnamed minor species should not have pages. Think back to the Stingray page and all the trouble that title caused. Individuals of unknown species are fine, but trying to name them is just ridiculous. There are MANY unnamed species in the DWU, if you are suggesting they all get a page then the conjecture tag is going to be slapped on every other page. These should be deleted.--Skittles the hog--Talk 20:19, February 13, 2011 (UTC)

I created the first of these pages aaaaaaaaaaaages ago and I believe that speculators have ruined it. I disagree with CzechOut, the pages aren't in any obscure way racist because there aren't real people with blue skin ... as far as I'm aware. I created the page under the name "Whitey" because that's the name given in the credits of Gridlock, but it was changed by an anonymous user to "White Person". I agree with Skittles the hog in that there are many unnamed species in Doctor Who. However, I saw the need to create the "Whitey" page because they are the only recurring species that do not have a page. After "The Pandorica Opens" aired, speculation went out of control, especially with the creation of the "Blue Humanoid" page. If any of this is confusing it's just because the part of me that wants to keep the pages and the part of me that wants to delete them are warring inside my head. So, all of these points summarised and such: Yes. Delete them because they're full of insane speculation and the small purpose I created the original page for has been drained of it's blood by annoying anons who think the DWU is their's to play with. Delete them. I'm A Hydroponic Tomato! Bigredrabbit (talk to me) 12:53, April 21, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I agree that they should be deleted. I think people have taken the racist remark a bit far. I didn't see it as a serious accusation. Anyway, individuals of unknown species are fine, but creating the page is just stupid.----Skittles the hog--Talk 13:04, April 21, 2011 (UTC)

1. Racism
2. Humans are pink humanoids
3. The Beast was red and humanoid, is he a red humanoid?
4. Things aren't only the colour of their skin

There not real reasons for a wiki showing factual statistics or information really. 1 and 4 are the same thing really and I do not believe this can actually be called racism. (but in society calling someone black (when they are black) is considered 'racist' nowadays, so what do I know?) , 3 the beast has a name, so no we wouldn't call him the 'red' humanoid for the obvious reasons that he has a name. or should i say 'it' or would that be sexist now?

Humans are not pink , thanks we are pale skinned but can be tanned, brown or black or yellow. Defaintly not pink however. (btw if you dare say that is racism, i shoot you. you should really look up the real meaning of racism)

Secondly, as that pissed me off so much the racist comment on a wiki, you need to link us the wiki. basically the rule is with wikis, if they are a fundermental part of the wiki, the information and factual statistics are worth the time for the reader to read and they learn from it. It stays. If it is too short (stub) or has nothing to add to the wiki - it goes. this is simple and of what GDLs were created for. User input information centres. Nothing more nothing less. Its not about race, its not about morals, its about information and facts.

Please keep society politically correct terms out of the internet and wikis. So frustrating when users plug this sort of argument in a debate. I quote from the Siluarians in their first appearence with Jon Pertwee, "...Primitive apes", becuase thats what your being. Primitive, with your arguments. silly.

my 2 cent. peace TheArtistBox 20:27, April 22, 2011 (UTC)

Right, you claim to be offended, but then call other users primitives. Look, these pages should be deleted as they do not cover anything other than speculation. In fact, they should have been deleted months ago. Even better, they should have never existed. Just my two pence.----Skittles the hog--Talk 20:41, April 22, 2011 (UTC)

Czech, as typical of you, you are overreacting and overdoing matters (not that I mind, this is OK; no harm intended). Anyway...

1) Racism: it's not racism; we just do not have a better name for them. We do not have a real name, so we are making do. 'Nuff said. 2) Humans are pink humanoids: yes, but we also have a name. The Humanoids do not (at least at the moment). We do not have a real name for them, so we are making do. 'Nuff said. 3) The Beast was red and humanoid, is he a red humanoid? Of course he was, just as humans are pink humanoids and the Silence grey humanoids. However, the Beast has his own name/species. We do not have a real name for the Humanoid pages, so we are making do. 'Nuff said. 4) Things aren't only the colour of their skin: Yes...we never said they weren't. Anything else? Personally, just clean up the #

pages of speculation and wait for the Humanoids to return. Who knows? We may get a name for them. --Bold Clone 20:44, April 22, 2011 (UTC)

As i once told Bold Clone; we include everything that has appeared on Doctor Who on this wikia, why is this any different? As Bold Clone says, we are making do with what we know, yes there should be a better name for the page but what is there to change it to that better defines what the article is about? --Revan\Talk 20:49, April 22, 2011 (UTC)

Looking at these pages; with the speculation removed (Thank you Bold Clone). There is nothing wrong with them. I have changed my mind by looking at them, reading them and reading other's opinion. We are doing the best with what information we have, and we have information. That information is now used in articles. Mini-mitch\talk 20:51, April 22, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, you've addressed those rather weak points, but the fact of the matter is that there are many, many unnamed species in the DWU. Individuals can exist. Species? No. What is this, the spotters guide? "Oh look, red guy at hospital, stunning article." Seriously? Again, such appearances can easily be covered on pages for individuals.----Skittles the hog--Talk 20:55, April 22, 2011 (UTC)

Something did occur to me as a possible compromise: Perhaps we could create a "Human-like" page in general? Or maybe an "Unnamed Species" page? --Bold Clone 20:59, April 22, 2011 (UTC)

Maybe this would be the best, ive just been thinking, ive been editing this page Saldaamir hes a friend of the Doctor's father and is only described as a blue humanoid. So by our logic we should be making him part of this race too, yet he fought in Time Wars and lived for millions of years, therefore he cannot be part of a race that seems to use hospitals and lives in a post-LGTW universe. --Revan\Talk 21:03, April 22, 2011 (UTC)

See Category:Near-human species. There are quite a few to say the least. Unnamed species is a bound several hundred. These pages are really lacking in any sort of real content. Look at White Humanoid for example:

White Humanoids were similar to Humans, but their skin was very pale and they had a bald head.White Humanoid

Really? If we saw the Ninth Doctor and no other Time Lords, must they all have big ears?----Skittles the hog--Talk 21:06, April 22, 2011 (UTC)

skittles the hog, you obviously missed the point of the quote. I was saying all this silly argumentation and 'debate' is primitive. Not the users that were making those arguments. But even you skipping my entire outrage to just that quote, getting it wrong, then trying to show me up as a 'better' human. That is what I call a dick. thanks for being a complete utter fool. Look i say the bottom line and it is this: Wiki is an informtaion site for all, they were made for information and facts for readers like you and I to read. If it is not factual or has nothing to offer the reader, you delete it. You don't be silly soldiers and argue over political mumbo jumbo and correctness that has no place. I repeat NO PLACE. on wiki. that is for politics and world affairs , not here. TheArtistBox 21:24, April 22, 2011 (UTC)

I'm gonna stick my head in the sand for a bit as I blocked the above user for profanity against another user as per Tardis:No personal attacks. Don't want to look like I'm eliminating the opposition. Thanks, now go forth and... prosper.----Skittles the hog--Talk 21:29, April 22, 2011 (UTC)

"A number of the humans who lived on New Earth came in extreme colours, including red and white." - Doctor Who: The Encyclopedia: Red People and White People entries.

Simon Pearsall was credited for his speaking role as "Whitey", in which he shared a scene with David Tennant. Actors playing uncredited minor roles in makeup were also listed in the Encyclopedia. The "Red Woman" who suffered from Marconi's Disease was played by Claire Sadler. The "White Man" who suffered from Pallidome Pancrosis was played by Paul Zeph Gould. The "Red Man" the Doctor briefly passed jumping through cars on the Motorway was played by Andrew Cameron.

Blue Humanoid is not connected to any of this. The article initially assumed that the Duke of Manhattan was blue and lording over whites and reds and later assumed that a named race with visibly yellow eyes, the Crespallions, had anything to do with Dorium. --Nyktimos 21:34, April 22, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, not yellow, but different. I should have double checked that. --Nyktimos 21:36, April 22, 2011 (UTC)

Since there is a source (Doctor Who: The Encyclopedia) that says the individuals are humans, then we should delete the pages after we have merged the information somewhere into the human article. If an in-universe source comes along to say that they are in fact a different species then by the rules of the wikia we should credit that source above a reference book, but until then the articles should be merged with the human article. Is this ok with everyone? --Revan\Talk 14:16, April 23, 2011 (UTC)

If they are some sort of human (perhaps some of the "impure" humans Cassandra talked about?), then we should merge the pages onto the human page. --Bold Clone 15:25, April 23, 2011 (UTC)

I remember another user mentioning this reference in the encyclopaedia. Do you know exactly where it is? As for merging, there isn't really anything to do other than add bit about how the species began to vary in skin tone to a greater extent.----Skittles the hog--Talk 15:56, April 23, 2011 (UTC)

I don't have the encyclopaedia, but I'll check the Time Traveller's Almanac for it now. --Revan\Talk 15:59, April 23, 2011 (UTC)

Nope, nothing on them in there, just regurgatated info from TV episodes. --Revan\Talk 16:01, April 23, 2011 (UTC)

The entries in Doctor Who: The Encyclopedia were "Red People" p. 144 and "White People" p. 188; both used the exact same opening line, the one I quoted up there. --Nyktimos 00:15, April 25, 2011 (UTC)

Though many would disagree, I think that The Doctor Who Encyclopedia should be considered a valid work of canon. It clearly states that what have been named "White and Red Humanoids" are, in fact, human beings. The reason they have strange skin colors is because they are new breeds of human, as Cassandra said in The End of the World. I also strongly disagree with the idea that their skins are that color because they have some disease. They are humans, I have read over the entries and I'm sure. If you consider The Encyclopedia canon, then you cannot deny that they are humans. And we should therefore delete "White Humanoid", "Red Humanoid" and "Blue Humanoid" because if you did that then you'd have to create pages for "European Humanoid", "Asian Humanoid", "African Humanoid", "Native American Humanoid" and that would be racist. Bigredrabbit 09:19, May 29, 2011 (UTC)

The main trouble is that we need these pages, and we can't delete them, we just need to re-phrase them. We could just take the page humanoid and add on the different types, such as blue humanoid a bit like (well not really) the way we do individule things at the bottom of infoboxes. The contents box on the humanoid page, if we did this, could be like this:

1. Humanoid

1. Blue Humanoid

1. Appearences

2. White Humanoid

1. Appearences

3. Red Humanoid

1. Appearences

And so on from there. I hope you all get what I've said. User:Ghastly9090/sig 16:43, May 29, 2011 (UTC)

Archivist's notes

Interestingly, despite the presence of my name throughout this document, I don't think I recall ever visiting this page, and I know I didn't actually delete Blue Humanoid and Red Humanoid or move White Humanoid to Whitey. All I do know is that, effectively, this was just a sideshow to the real discussion. Talk:Blue Humanoid is the page where the community decision was actually taken.

The suggestions put forward in this thread were not adopted. The end result was that Blue Humanoid and Red Humanoid were deleted. White Humanoid still nominally exists today, but only as a redirect to Whitey, a credits-named character.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍ 19:09: Fri 21 Oct 2011