Howling:Dalek history question
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Okay, so the Fourth Doctor changes the history of the Daleks in "Genesis of the Daleks", so that things now happen differently to how they happened before. He states that he's set their development back by about a thousand years in the story. Logically, all the previous Dalek stories would be affected by these disruptions in the timeline. Does this mean that in the new timeline, the Daleks don't necessarily invade Earth in the 22nd century? If so, what became of Susan, who stayed behind on war-torn Earth to help rebuild? Being a Time Lady, does she remain the same, but reality alters around her? And then there's stories like "The Evil of the Daleks" and "Day of the Daleks." Both stories involve Daleks travelling from the future into the past, but now that the timeline those particular Daleks were part of may well no longer exist thanks to the events in "Genesis", are the events of these stories now suspect? Does Victoria's father no longer draw the Daleks to 19th century Earth (then what's happened to Victoria? Has her personal history changed?), and do the Daleks no longer battle UNIT in the mid-20th century? The Doctor, of course, will still remember these adventures, but will other people? EJA 16:22, April 12, 2011 (UTC)
Oh, and in "The Five Doctors", Susan is wearing Earth style clothes, suggesting she was living on Earth at the time she was picked up by the time scoop. I just thought I'd mention it. EJA 09:29, April 13, 2011 (UTC)
The Doctor changes history in almost every episode, the only difference in Genesis is that there was a specific event that he was trying to change. Since the creation of the Daleks was not a fixed point in history, it doesn't matter that the Doctor changed it. Since we don't know what time period Genesis of the Daleks took place in, it is possible that the Dalek invasions still occured, but the Daleks were 1000 years less advanced. It is also possible that when the Doctor met the Daleks in episodes before Genesis, they had already spent 1000 years trapped in the bunker, and the Doctor was simply playing his pre-established role in history in Genesis.(although, then you would expect the Daleks in The Daleks to recognize the Doctor as an enemy of the Daleks.)Icecreamdif 22:19, April 13, 2011 (UTC)
I'd say it's all about context here. If you think Big Bang Two reset the universe, then I personally think: yes, history has changed. If you think Big Bang Two rebooted the universe, then none of that happened anyway and it doesn't matter. I'll go with the latter. Gallifrey102 20:32, April 14, 2011 (UTC)
What does Big Bang Two have to do with anything? We haven't seen the Daleks since Big Bang Two, and the episodes that Genesis would have affected came out decades before The Big Bang.Icecreamdif 23:34, April 14, 2011 (UTC)
The thing is though, the Fourth Doctor's presense in "Genesis" was due to a deliberate attempt by the Time Lords to change history. The Time Lords are experts in this kind of thing, so I personally reckon they would've known if the Doctor had always meant to be present at the Daleks' creation. While some years ago, I did think that it was all one perfectly harmonious timeline, I've since changed my opinion somewhat and subscribed to the "two Dalek histories" theory, which I believe others have already put forth. My overriding question now is, what happens to characters like Susan and Victoria, who were deeply caught up in events in the original version of Dalek history? EJA 09:15, April 15, 2011 (UTC)
I really don't see why you're all debating this so much, since when, put into context, The Last Great Time War would have destroyed the Daleks from ever having existed, with only a few factions, such as the Imperial Dalek Fleet, the Cult of Skaro and Davros having survived. This would have meant the only Dalek history pre-Pandorica was the Battle of the Game Station, the Battle of Canary Wharf, the Dalek New-York Incursion, the War in the Medusa Cascade and the Recreation of the Daleks. Since the 21st century invasions never happened, as Moffat confirmed, it's possible that nothing else in that list did, either. Whether the New Dalek Paradigm somehow escaped the Total Event Collapes and subsequent Big Bag Two, only time will tell, but it doesn't seem like we'll be seeing them any time in the next season. Gallifrey102 09:36, April 15, 2011 (UTC)
The Time War could not have erased all of Dalek history though, because we see in "The Parting of the Ways" how Captain Jack knows what they are, and the people of Earth in the year 200,100 AD have some knowledge of them; one character actually says "There aren't any Daleks! They all disappeared thousands of years ago!" So they were definitely around at some point. I've heard things like this before, and there's absolutely no basis for it. EJA 18:13, April 15, 2011 (UTC)
Ah, yes...I see that you're apparently correct...Um...Well, this is...embarrasing. Still, at least we know that the Daleks care about their history as much as we do. Gallifrey102 21:19, April 15, 2011 (UTC)
So, if we just assume, for the moment, that the Doctor's actions in "Genesis" do negate the Daleks' prior history, including their invasion of 22nd century Earth, what would happen to Susan? I've already suggested that as she's a Time Lady, her personal history would remain the same, but everything around her would alter to fit the new timeline. What are people's opinions of this? Even if the Daleks did attack Earth in the 22nd century, they'd still be 1000 years less advanced, so it would still be drastically different. EJA 15:59, April 16, 2011 (UTC)
The Daleks discovered this interfearence and thus started the Last Great Time War to undo The Doctor's interfearence. We don't know that they didn't accomplish that and set everything right... Gallifrey102 16:05, April 16, 2011 (UTC)
