Howling:History erased by Series 5 finale - isn't this speculation?
Please DO NOT add to this discussion.
Ello! I'm theangelJean, and I'm new here. Been reading for a few weeks, and just started editing.
Having watched Series 5 of the new series recently, and having obtained the box set of Series 2, I'm obviously mostly interested in editing articles related to those. Aren't we all!
I'm seeing a lot of the story articles stating that "such and such event was erased" (referencing TV:The Pandorica Opens) and then "the events were restored by the Doctor (referencing TV: The Big Bang), going as far back as Series 2! I think this is speculation and not firm enough to put in the articles. There were some clues that things might not be all they seemed throughout series 5, but no definite statement that things like the Cyberman invasion of Earth etc were erased by the Time Field. With the cause of the Tardis explosion still unknown, I think this is still a bit of a tricky area. And as Series 5 shows, even when the cause of things has been erased by the Time Field, the effects (like the photograph of Rory in the Roman costume, and the engagement ring) still remain, so who can predict what will have stayed and what will have gone? Amy was able to bring back the Doctor, so what about the adventures they had, they were part of her memories too ... It's possible that even though we saw them rewinding, because she brought the Doctor back they still happened, and he just got her back home in time for her wedding :P The way I see it, it remains to be seen what events have been completely erased and what have still happened in the 'reset' universe.
I think I'm going to go through and remove a bunch of references like these from the articles. Please give me a heads up if you disagree with me here, and let me know if you have any supporting references, I'm keen to find out things I didn't know :) Obviously I won't be removing things like Rory and the Weeping Angels being absorbed by the Time Field, but ... the Cybermen? The Alliance itself? That's a tough one...the angel Jean - Smith's little elf 14:04, July 18, 2010 (UTC)
I agree with you I think the whole Rivers diary being refilled was showing that all the Doctors actions have been "reinstalled" into the universe. 121.208.6.151 02:25, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
Heh. I agree with 121.208.6.151 that we can't just assume that things were erased. But my personal opinion is that we just don't have enough information to say these things, at all. Here are the facts as I see them:
- During series 5, Amy seemed not to have any memory of certain events from previous series, and the Doctor finds it odd,
- After the explosion of the Tardis, there is a timeline where stars do not exist, a Dalek is made of stone and comes back to life, the Doctor is dying and the Tardis is exploding,
- Several things were seen in rewind in "The Big Bang", with Time field cracks nearby, and
- On the day of Amy's wedding, up until Amy remembers the Doctor, nobody remembers him, and River's diary is empty. Afterwards, River's diary has writing in it.
I think there are specific things we don't know for certain that are related to each of those 4 facts:
- We don't know why Amy doesn't remember certain things.
- We don't know where the timeline with Amy inside the Pandorica, Auton Rory etc. fits in with the previous series, or even the next series. We only have a couple of clues as to who remembers it - or at least certain bits. "Back to normal" means what, exactly?
- We don't know whether the rewind means that the events shown didn't happen, whether they disappeared through the cracks when the Doctor climbed in, or something else weird and wacky.
- We don't know what people remember of their timeline "before" the day of Amy's wedding, or before the Tardis reappeared - neither for time-travellers (Amy, Rory, River, the Doctor) nor for non-time travellers living in the rest of the world. River's diary is some record of her point of view, but we never do know what it says. And we don't know what exactly changed in the process of Amy remembering the Doctor.
It's all wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey, and I'm sure the writers will have something to say about it in the next series (although I doubt they'll make everything clear). Until then, speculation is always fun - and I'm enjoying the "New Whoniverse" forum thread - but I think that all those ideas belong in the forums, not the Wiki. I recommend a "wait and see" approach, and sticking to the facts (assuming nobody is going to dispute those with me). the angel Jean - Smith's little elf 04:25, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
