Howling:Hmm
Please DO NOT add to this discussion.
The 50th was good but it had the john hurt arc which has not been going on for a long time
the christmas episode will see the climax of the silence hopefully and trenzelore will return
My theory is that the doctor doesnt die at trenzalore
What if since clara never met peter capaldi in her "Other Lives" what if the 11 dies and then regenerates as 12 but his grave is left behhind Orangerichard56 ☎ 16:29, November 24, 2013 (UTC)
Yes, it is a bit of a mystery. Because the Doctor's time stream is on Trenzalore when he dies. Does he die or does he regenerate. It does not seem to make sense. He has to live for Capaldi's doctor and the show to continue --Catkind121 21:43, November 24, 2013 (UTC)
Clara seemed to take meeting Hurt pretty matter-of-factly, not even asking why she did not know him. Does that imply that 11 provided her with more explanation between picking her up and when we see her again at Coal Hill School?
Since it was made clear that 10 will forget it all, having him learn that The Doctor will die in a battle with millions at Trenzalore almost guarantees that that is Not what ultimately happens. The time line that brought him to Trenzalore included using the Moment to end the Time War. Since that did not happen, his "future" from now on will be a bit different, particularly with the Galifrey Quest. On the other hand, will the Time Lords, could the Time Lords, as bad as they had become, return and just revert to their Pre-war character? If they did come back, and Rasillion was still leading them, would they not seek revenge upon the Daleks? And so simply re-start the Time War? Not knowing why the Doctor was battling at Trenzalore leaves a great big void. And it may be that for some reason Clara-ghosts of the future Doctors cannot share their knowledge with Clara proper. And then there is also the River Song matter to sort out. Clara has Jack's Vortex Manipulator. Is it possibly destined to be the one River uses?Phil Stone ☎ 04:14, November 25, 2013 (UTC)
- Jack and River used the same sonic blaster, but likely not the same vortex manipulator, as River got hers (or, at least one of hers) from Doriam "off the wrist of a handsome Time Agent…I said off the wrist". —BioniclesaurKing4t2 - "Hello, I'm the Doctor. Basically, . . . run." 04:26, November 25, 2013 (UTC)
- To be fair, technically that could possibly still be Jack's vortex manipulator that River ended up with. Considering Jack's ultimate regeneration abilities, it seems perfectly logical that they could have cut his hand off, and he just grew it back. (How they managed to subdue him in the first place would be a mystery, but still in the realm of possibility.) I've always wondered about this, because it was interesting that Doriam went out of his way to say "handsome" time agent. That could have very well been a nod to the fact that it was indeed Jack, and leaves an opening for them to claim that as the case later on.
- --Saghan ☎ 06:18, November 26, 2013 (UTC)
It's all very simple: The Doctor goes to Trenzalore three times.– The preceding unsigned comment was added by 108.246.49.33 (talk).
- Saghan, I have to say that's pretty brilliant. People (including myself) always say that it couldn't have been Jack because of the wrist thing, and we are completely forgetting his regenerative abilities. Shambala108 ☎ 04:47, November 30, 2013 (UTC)
I would agree. "Handsome" has to mean Jack. The "Time Agent" could have been described many other ways. Even as "a dead Time Agent." Of course as far as we know, Jack left the Time Agency before he lost the ability to die. But That would not preclude an older Jack, with the post-Bad Wolf body, passing himself off as a Time Agent, or someone assuming he was because he had the "spark" tech. The thought of an older Jack traveling about, being taken for a Time Agent suggests an interesting possibility. What if the reason the Time Agency erased a year of Jack's memories was because Jack ran into Jack?
About Trenzalore: The Silence sought to establish a fixed point of Death for the Doctor to avoid his going to Trenzalore. And while some have assumed that what they hoped to avoid was someone like the GI gaining access to the Doctor's time stream and the resulting havoc which Clara apparently negated, we don't really know that. The Silence never struck me as in the least beneficent. And if the goal was to stop the undoing of all the good the Doctor has done, than killing him at some random point in his life, when there is more good to be done, is going to mess things up as well. I suspect that, whether they know it or not, this is about a specific event that someone wishes to preserve, or avoid. Also, though the Doctor will die on Trenzalore, we don't really know how, and we don't know that he loses. Perhaps the whole Prophecy of the Silence and Trenzalore was to keep the Doctor from going there at all, and so prevent his actions in defeating some time travelling enemy. For all we know, the Doctor defeated the Silence at Trenzalore, and so they went back in time and sought to prevent the Doctor from ever getting there.
On the subject of the Question: Doctor Who? Since our last visit to Lake Silencio, that question has been given some new twists which are worth considering. Who is the Doctor? Is he someone who can kill billions of innocents to save even more? "Who" may refer not to his name, but to his character. He is someone worthy of his name, the name he has chosen.
Oswin in the Asylum gave us another twist by erasing all records of the Doctor. Doctor Who? If he is somehow forced to tell the truth, how would he answer? And could his death (and subsequent regeneration into Peter Capaldi) be the way he avoids it, whatever it is?Phil Stone ☎ 04:52, December 4, 2013 (UTC)
One more thing to complicate Trenzalore and The Silence. The prophecy speaks of a time when no living person can refuse to answer, or tell a lie. But that's not what happened in "Name of the Doctor." The Doctor, who was living refused to answer. And the answer was given by a ghost of River, after she was dead. So while many believe that the issue of "The Question" has been settled, I think there is more to come.Phil Stone ☎ 01:04, December 6, 2013 (UTC)
Trenzalore is not a planet of truth. Dorium was describing conditions when he wouldn't have a choice due to his personality, and, surprisingly, he chose not to. River saved them. Afro Circus Afro Circus Afro PolkaPolka Dot Afro! 22:33, December 14, 2013 (UTC)
Dorium was explaining the Prophecy, as well as he understood it. He offered no explanation of why no living being (not specifically the Doctor, but anyone) would be unable to lie, and be forced to answer. And that is not what happened. But you are assuming that because what did happen can be stretched to appear to fit the Prophecy, that this is what the prophecy meant all along, that The Doctor could not help but answer just because he is The Doctor. Even though in fact the Doctor could not answer. If the Doctor understood what damage could be wrought through access to his tomb, and there is every reason to believe he did, then it isn't at all surprising that he could withhold an answer. So the Prophecy was just wrong. If your interpretation is correct.
When River was linked with Vastra, Jenny and Clara for the meeting, why does the connection only survive to Clara? Why cannot Vastra & Jenny & Strax see her? I think the connection is more important than just a way for the Doctor to cheat the Prophecy.Phil Stone ☎ 05:37, December 16, 2013 (UTC)
