Howling:My Problem with Twelfth Doctor
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Somethings bothering me. In the original timeline, the eleventh doctor died on Trenzalore and the time lords never gave him more regenerations. However what happened to all the evil that still needed fought? All of the adventures and enemies the twelfth doctor onwards will face was never defeated/done in the original timeline. So what happened? Was there no evil? Did someone else start defending the universe? Did the universe become a darker place without the doctor? Obviously all this peril will be stopped by the twelfth doctor and later ones but again, what if he wasn't there? What would happen? The same can be said for if the first doctor never left gallifrey. A cosmos without the doctor scarcely bears thinking about....--Coop3 ☎ 19:39, March 20, 2014 (UTC)
I see the problem but the only answer I can give is that we don't know. This hasn't been shown & I doubt that it will ever be shown. --89.241.211.67talk to me 11:23, March 21, 2014 (UTC)
I think there was a parallel universe where the doctor didn't leave Gallifray, and everything was terrible. I think the doctors death may have the same affect, but remember: time travel. While the doctor was dead on trenzalore, there would still be past versions of him running around. Many of the doctors adventures are never told, so It could be possible in that timeline, the 3rd doctor could be fighting daleks on one corner of the universe, while the 10th was fighting autons. In fact, the doctor could already be buried some where in the normal timeline. {{SUBST:User:Dragonofelder/Sig|17:02,3/22/2014}}
There are so many paradoxes at this point, I don't think it's worth getting hung up on them. You can make the case that if the Doctor hadn't left Gallifrey, the universe would've (paradoxically) been destroyed numerous times. The events of Logopolis and Journey's End are just two examples. Of course, you could also argue that the universe was only under threat in those cases because of the Doctor's actions. It's difficult to say for sure. You could even question if the universe would exist in the first place if he hadn't left Gallifrey (see Terminus and The Big Bang). It's true that some paradoxes are bigger than others but you'll drive yourself mad if you try to make sense of all of them. Slughorn42 ☎ 17:14, March 22, 2014 (UTC)
Coop3: Although, as I said earlier, we don't know & aren't likely to find out, what we have seen suggests (to me) the following:
- In the original timeline, in which the Doctor died on Trenzalore, something happened (presumably something extremely bad) that made the Time Lords decide to go back & rewrite time by giving him a new cycle of regenerations.
The very existence of two timelines indicates this, without (of course) telling us what happened or what methods the Time Lords used. We do know (from The Three Doctors) that the Time Lords are willing & able to violate the Laws of Time, if the threat to themselves is great enough.
As Slughorn42 says, the situation is so complex & paradoxical that there's no way for us to work out the details. --89.241.219.222talk to me 04:17, March 23, 2014 (UTC)
We'll assuming the Eleventh Doctor was the last incarnation (I don't agree with the War Doctor and Meta-Crisis counting as regenerations, but that's me), so we're assuming he was the version buried in the tomb on Trenzalore. It could be that the Time Lords were always going to give him a new regenrative cycle. I do not agree with the wikia's perception that his death and burial on Trenzalore is now an alternate timeline. There is still a possibility that he will return to Trenzalore for his final battle someday. Steed ☎ 00:00, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
Like it or not, Steed, The War Doctor and 10's first regen counting was stated for fact on screen. Sorry. Sabre Knight ☎ 00:05, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
What's more, it was stated on screen by the Eleventh Doctor as the explanation of why he was the last incarnation. It couldn't have been more definite or explicit. --89.241.210.39talk to me 04:03, April 17, 2014 (UTC)
I think that this is the original timeline, and that the death on Trenzalore is still yet to come. ;) ;D --108.184.174.38talk to me 23:15, April 28, 2014 (UTC)
I think that the most logical outcome all that occur was that the timmelord just DELAYED his eventual death there. Trenzalore is still waitinng but for now the ULTIMATE death has been delayed. 74.73.148.152talk to me 02:59, April 29, 2014 (UTC)
Well we'll never know unless its stated however I still believe that he changed his timeline and that originally he did die but has now survived it. The evidence is all there though. The doctor being on his last incarnation, the tardis control room looking the same in name of the doctor, I've even read somewhere that the crack on the window the tardis gets after falling onto trenzalore in name of the doctor can be seen on the future tardis, if this was the doctors far future, then surely the crack would have been repaired in the meantime. --5.68.20.189talk to me 13:41, April 29, 2014 (UTC)
This concept was kind of explored in Turn Left. Wario64 ☎ 07:19, June 30, 2014 (UTC)
