Howling:River has a Time Agent vortex manipulator.
Please DO NOT add to this discussion.
In the 2 minute clip, you can see her vortex manipulator vaugely, but in one of the promo pictures, you can see it completely. She swings round with some fancy futuristic gun in one hand, and Time Agent strap on her other arm. Well, looks like the debate of her identity is over: she is a Time Agent, like Jack. Time Agents are individual humans from the 51st century, who developed Time Travel during that time. River Song is from the 51st century, and there she has it, a Time Agent strap.
Can we finally settle this silly debate as to who she is? I read an interview shortly before The Time of Angels, where she was clearly refered to as being as time traveler herself, too, but no one would accept it. Or, they said she had a TARDIS. But no, the finale proves her to be a Time Agent, it seems. They're from a group of Time Travelrs from the 51st century who, well, time traveler. In the finale, River is known to have been time traveling around on her own, going to Roman era, just like Jack went to World War II. I swear, if I see one more River-is-so-and-so rubbish, I might scream. She's a Time Agent. I had that thoery since she first appeared (funny that, time traveling human from the 51st century... sounded like a Time Agent), and now a picture clearly showed her Time Agent strap, exactly the same as Jack's strap, no less.
The simple answer is there now, she is one of the remaining Time Agents, and at some point met ther Doctor in her travels. You can vaugely notice the strap in the clip, as I said., but very clearly in one of the images, which was shown in the spoiler section of the Gallifrey Base forum.
I was thought that River = Time Lady bull wasn't going to come true. The fact that she was a Time Traveler from the 51st century and written by Steven Moffat (who wrote Jack first) said it all, now the finale throws it in your face with her vortex manipulator. Of course, I'm expecting some doop fanboy to come along and find some reason for her to actually be a Time Lady. Typical fanboyism: everyone mysteries must be someone from the Doctor's past. No, River is River, someone from his future, not his past. Good lord! Delton Menace 20:47, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
Silly debate? Come on! Many people out there would say any debate about Dr Who was silly but as this forum exists for the purpose of such debate surely any topic is OK.81.141.84.224 07:13, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
I thought she might be a Time Agent since The Time of Angels, the closer for me (after sonic gun and time traveller) being the hallucinogenic lipstick she used on the Byzantium guard. Remember Captain John Hart disabling Gwen in Torchwood with something on his lips? Torchwood Five 188.28.217.149 02:18, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
May not be the right place for this, but does anyone else think the Doctor will use the vortex manipulator to cross his own time-stream? This would be the perfect explanation for how he did it.
- Now, as much as I hope she is a time agent, you do have to understand that there is a chance she isn't. I mean, just because Jack had a TARDIS coral doesn't make him a Time Lord, does it? Just in the same way that Moffat hinted that the blaster she used in the library could have been Jack's, the same can be said of the wrist strap. And until she actually confirms it, or someone does, we can't list her as such. And if Jack really does turn out to be the face of boe, well then, he'll have no need for the strap.09:54, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
She _is_ Jack after a bit of simple surgery in 2113.
Is it just me or do the votex manipulators seem a bit _too_ good. Everybody's time travel stuff seems to be better than the Time Lords. Jack Chilli (keeps crashing this laptop when I log in).
You have been making me *facepalm* a lot in recent days, The Thirteenth Doctor. You can't except interviews, confirmations, or even pictures and spoilers. Not one thing. And now you can't except the obvious. 51st century time-traveling human who goes into the past, and owns a vortex manipular. Recent years have made it clear that it what all time agents do. Unless, of course, you go make up that a human called River mysterious got a vortex manipular, and just so happened to be from the 51st century, too. Delton Menace 11:00, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
I've got it figured out now. Jack has a 'op' in 2113 and becomes River. She travels back to 2009 and meets Jack 'Hello Sweetie' and 'the usual' happens for Jack. An uber-time-scrabmbled baby is conseved and is born on 26th June 2010. This baby is actually Jack; he was born in 2010 but touched the vortex manipulator the instant he was born ending up in 51st century where he was adopted by the Rani (in disguise) who is part human because Jack was her great great grandfather (by Susan). Much later he goes back in time again and becomes Amy's great great grandfater during an affair in WW2. He's in the pandorica (half naked with Amy's Aunt) and when Amy opens it and asks him who he is the _entire universe_ just gives up existing because it's just too hard to explain and everything vanishes. I will not go into details about what happens next (in the Big Bang) save to say that it is not typical family viewing material. Jack Chilli.
- I just like to point out that there are an infinite number of possibilities as to how she obtained the wrist strap. Yes, I do believe it is the most obvious one, that she is in some way connected to the time agency, I'm just pointing out that we can't say for definite she is until confirmed as it would be classed as speculation and therefore would have no place on the wiki. The Thirteenth Doctor 11:28, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
unless she killed Jack unknowingly that he comes back to life and took his vortex manipulator.... this was the person that she killed.... also.... jack knows how to fly the Tardis.... :D Dynamo2007 11:32, June 17, 2010 (UTC) - damn just read what The Thirteenth Doctor wrote above :(
the thing with river song is that who she is always weems to obvious, like who she killed. it seems obvious that it is the doctor. but i get the feeling that this is what Moffat wants us to think, and her whole character is full of red herrings.
she does say she is always lieing, in SiTL
- Now, I don't want to be rude... but... told you so. ;)The Thirteenth Doctor 21:29, June 19, 2010 (UTC)
Not a time agent since she got it from someone in a bar somewhere. Still very questionable who she is though. She does know a hell of a lot about time travel and the TARDIS. Besides who she is relevant to the Doctor, I believe she is just a questionable character with positive morals. Meaning that she's more or less like Robin Hood, she does bad deeds for good reasons. V00D00M0NKY 05:46, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
Is there a chance that the Vortex Manipulator plays a role in River's escape from the TARDIS? Or is there something about the TARDIS that would prevent it from working?68.160.136.33 07:32, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
- The Vortex Manipulator cant help River...because it was left with the Doctor. - I. Am. Excalibur-117-(talk • contribs) 07:36, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
- Excalibur-117, When did she leave the Vortex Manipulator with the Doctor? DalekJast092 07:39, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
- When the Doctor calls her ("get that TARDIS over here") you can see it lying next to the Doctor, on a stone ledge next to The Box) 194.109.1.114 10:51, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
- If you're suggesting that the rebel Aliance put the Doc in the Pandorica with his sonic screwdriver let alone a Vortex manipulator then I will be sorely disaponted in their abilities. Alright, it's hard for a Dalek to frisk but the Sontarans would surely be up for it. Jack Chilli.
- You're Right Jack Chilli, I would say it'd be a means of exit for River out of her position between a rock and an exploding TARDIS then the Doctor getting out of the Pandorica with it.DalekJast092 08:42, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
- I'd guess that she will be able to use it somehow but first she needs somewhere to go. There is no space and time left to go to so she will have to wait until it is restored. How can you remake a universe? Jack.
- Damn... I was about to believe that she used to to escape then you reminded me there is nowhere to escape to. And really... when did she leave it with the Doctor? Honestly, call me oblivious, but I don't even remember actually seeing it (I know she did have it though). V00D00M0NKY 07:06, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
- Not necessarily true, at least at the moment. Although the universe was exploding and "The Silence" came, you can still see the Earth at the end of the show. Also, even though I think it would be cheap, could she jump into the Pandorica itself and therefore let the Doctor out to do his crossing the timelines deal? BrainySpecs 07:09, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
- There were many locks on the inside specifically designed to keep the Doctor in. I think they would prevent teleportation and time manipulation inside the Pandorica. V00D00M0NKY 07:21, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
- I'd agree with you on this one if the Doctor hadn't specifically mentioned how it's easy to get in (vs. difficult to get out). And frankly, I still think it would be too cheap a way to get him out anyway. I can't imagine the wrist band time/space jumpers being that precise. BrainySpecs 07:42, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
- Well, ok, but think about what you just said. It's easy to get in so she would be able to teleport in... But how would the two of them then get out? It's not like she can teleport outside the box and release the Doctor without any of the aliens stopping her. You saw how long it took to open on it's own. V00D00M0NKY 07:52, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
- Indeed it would be long, difficult, and hard to make an entertaining part of the show. But for sake of argument, let's say she jumped in there. She wouldn't be bolted down like the Doctor, and she may still have the Roman-scaring future gun that turns things to dust. She releases the Doctor, and well, he's smart enought to do the rest. Heck, I don't remember anyone taking his screwdriver (do that baddies have ANY idea how big those pockets are on the inside), so it's possible he still has it. And as long as it would take for them to get out, the perfect formation of enemies may dissipate. Still not saying they'll do it, or should do it. They shouldn't, it would be pretty terrible, story-wise. It may even make me cry. But it would be possible. BrainySpecs 08:06, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
- It looked like the Earth faded at the end to me. Why would it escape the destruction of everything? I'm expecting the next story to start somewhere 'unreal'; somthing like Amy's and the Doctor's mind. The only sill I've seen just _feels_ like a museum; a place where all of the Doctors history is recalled. Not her house, not the pandorica; a place of memory. From here the Doctor and Amy may put everything back and then the fun can start again in the real world.
Jaunting into the pardorica is cheap- what sort of trap is that eh? I coulod come up with better (like not having enoug space to fit inside. Once it is full surely it would become secure. Letting the Doc in with tools would be unrealy stupid. Jack Chilli 08:15, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
Well the vortex manipulator is there on the ledge at 28:06 after River has gone to the TARDIS (thanks 194.109.1.114). She's not getting out that way but I really hope that the Doc didn't get to take it in with him Ultimate trap? Jack.
In a spoiler pic from The Big Bang, The Doctor is most definitely wearing the Vortex Manipulator. (Having trouble uploading images, so http://doctorwhotv.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Pandorica-Spoilers-12.jpg) Perhaps because the TARDIS is exploding on Earth, time & space are imploding around it, allowing for nearly 2,000 years to pass on Earth before the Doctor is released from the Pandorica by Amelia. The Doctor felt like he was missing something important a few times this season and I bet the "Doctor without the TARDIS" will cross his own timeline to keep it that way. 3gv 17:56, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
