Howling:Silence in the Lodger
Please DO NOT add to this discussion.
The ship on Craig's roof looked like a Silent ship. Also the body next to the controls could have been a Silent. It's ages since I saw the episode but perhaps this was foreshadowing the series 6 arc. Any thoughts? 94.72.209.209talk to me 11:05, December 29, 2011 (UTC)
aren't we already disscussing this topic in http://tardis.wikia.com/index.php?title=Howling:Who_is_building_Tardis_Knock-Offs%3F&t=20111222075553 ? Imamadmad talk to me 11:52, December 29, 2011 (UTC)
I certainly thought that's what we were discussing there. It's what I was discussing there, at any rate. --89.240.240.49talk to me 15:09, December 29, 2011 (UTC)
However I think The Lodger deserves another discussion entirely. For instance, the body next to the controls and Amy acting weird in the TARDIS. Watch this video and observe Amy's expression. Obviously she's noticed something in the TARDIS. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2E7KiFsKz8 94.72.209.209talk to me 18:56, December 29, 2011 (UTC)
The body next to the controls is roughly the same size and shape as an adult human but could be any species that fits that description. I'm not saying it couldn't have been a Silent, only that it could equally well have been something else entirely. Amy's expression could be the result of noticing something in the TARDIS but, again, other explanations are perfectly plausible. She's alone in a misbehaving TARDIS, getting rattled around and having a none-too-comforting conversation with the Doctor. The evidence in each case (body in ship, Amy's expression) is so ambiguous that all we can say is it doesn't rule out a Silent but doesn't positively indicate one, either. --89.240.240.49talk to me 02:46, December 30, 2011 (UTC)
PS: I ought to have said that I compared the YouTube video with the same scenes on the DVD and the oddities in Amy's expression look much less odd in their proper context -- i.e., when you see what else is happening at the time. --89.240.240.49talk to me 02:54, December 30, 2011 (UTC)
I haven't seen the episode in a while but I remember watching and being puzzled at Amy's expression, but thought nothing of it until I saw Series 6.on a completely different note, however, the ship, (I think) says that it has only tried 16 people on the console. Now considering the rate that the ship went through humans, using about one or two a day, that meant that it only started trying to take off just over a fortnight ago. Why did it start then? Was something hurrying it to take off? Could it be anything to do with the crack in Craig's wall that appeared that day? I think the Ship knew about the cracks - hence the urgency to leave the safety of Craig's roof. And who knows more about the cracks than a silent does? 94.72.209.160talk to me 21:39, December 30, 2011 (UTC)
I'm not sure that the Silence know anything about the cracks. They probably didn't mean for the TARDIS explosion to destroy the entire universe. Maybe the ship had only been on the roof of Craig's house for a couple of weeks. The perception filter could just have made him forget that it hadn't always been there.Icecreamdif talk to me 08:46, December 31, 2011 (UTC)
Do we even know for definite the Silence did explode the Tardis? That vice that said "silence will fall" didn't sound like a silent. 94.72.209.160talk to me 13:21, December 31, 2011 (UTC)
We don't know for sure, but apart from the voice, that theory works better than any other theory.Icecreamdif talk to me 20:40, January 1, 2012 (UTC)
That the voice wasn't (as far as we can tell) a Silent -- the Munch-Scream aliens -- doesn't mean it wasn't one of the Silence -- the organisation. We know that organisation includes more than one species. --2.96.23.109talk to me 15:45, January 2, 2012 (UTC)
It sounded like Omegaa to me. Don't know why it just did. 178.78.81.210talk to me 16:37, January 2, 2012 (UTC)
Wishful thinking, that's why. --89.242.79.21talk to me 17:02, January 2, 2012 (UTC)
He didn't really sound much like Omega to me. Besides, didn't Omega disintegrate or something in Arc of Infinity? We all know that Doctor Who enemies never come back after they have died on screen. Besides, if anything the voice sounded like Davros, but it probably isn't him either.Icecreamdif talk to me 20:51, January 2, 2012 (UTC)
So are we going to assume it was a silent, or a member of the silence who we havent met yet? 178.78.81.210talk to me 22:13, January 2, 2012 (UTC)
Why not assume we don't really know who it was? -- not yet, anyway. The voice didn't sound like a Silent. It didn't sound so obviously like any individual we know of to be conclusive: not Omega, not Davros. There are also wilder possibilities. As an example that I do not intend to be taken seriously, it conceivably could be a regenerated (hence different-sounding) Rassilon. In the circumstances, leaving the question in the "pending" file seems like the only sensible course. --89.241.74.47talk to me 01:23, January 3, 2012 (UTC)
I thoughtbthere used to be a discussion about the mysterious voice? Either way on forums most fans seem to believe it's Omega. 87.102.117.106talk to me 12:43, January 8, 2012 (UTC)
Maybe they do but, with just the voice to go on, that can't be regarded as a well-founded conclusion. It might turn out to be right but so might any one of many conflicting possibilities. --89.242.74.218talk to me 14:25, January 8, 2012 (UTC)
people also thought the house's voice was omega's. i have learned to stop listening to anyone who suggests that omega or the rani are comming back, as they seem to be the two most beople want to thing are returning, and they are always wrong. Imamadmad talk to me 22:22, January 8, 2012 (UTC)
Given how different from each other the "Silence Will Fall" voice and the House sounded, that should say something about how much sense these theories make. If the "Silence will fall" voice is anything that we've heard before then I still think that Davros is the most likely candidate, but it is probably something new. Or, maybe it's the Black Guardian, the Great Architect, or the Quarks.Icecreamdif talk to me 04:13, January 9, 2012 (UTC)
Definitely not the Quarks. Their voices were high-pitched and extremely electronic. But, basically, you're right: we don't know and don't have anywhere near enough evidence to make sensible guesses. --89.241.77.143talk to me 05:42, January 9, 2012 (UTC)
I agree that we cannot guess who spoke the words "Silence will fall" but I think we are all beginning to agree that it was not a member of the Silence movement. The Silence movement does not want silence to fall. First they try to trap the Doctor in the Pandorica - for which they needed an easy-to-manipulate Time Lady like River Song to fly the TARDIS away from the Doctor at the key moment so that he could not escape in it. But this third entity, after saying "Silence will fall," blew up the TARDIS causing both the cracks in time (still perhaps an accident but maybe an attempt to destroy the universe) and a way (maybe accidently or maybe on purpose) for the Doctor to escape. Then the Silence tried to kill the Doctor using River Song who is an excellent tool left over from the first attempt. (This is my reason why the Silence placed River in the astronaut suit and then in the lake - less convoluted than a bootstrap paradox). So how many races know how to blow up a TARDIS? --ANone talk to me 06:15, January 9, 2012 (UTC)
I doubt if the Daleks do and, anyway, they were in the Alliance that was (ham-fistedly) trying to prevent it. They also have rather distinctive voices. The Time Lords, of course, would have known how. I can't think of any others (that we've already met) who would both be able to do it and might want to. We seem to be stuck with those notorious suspects: person or persons unknown. --89.241.77.143talk to me 08:24, January 9, 2012 (UTC)
The Rani can be ruled out though. (for once). 87.102.117.106talk to me 16:48, January 9, 2012 (UTC)
Unless she's regenerated and changed sex. (That would upset a lot of people!) --78.146.182.117talk to me 19:58, January 9, 2012 (UTC)
Nah, we all know River is the Rani. Or was it Amy? Or Rose? Or Donna? Or Martha? Or Gwen? Or every single freaking female in the Whoniverse? It certainly seems that way according to internet speculation. 87.102.117.106talk to me 20:53, January 9, 2012 (UTC)
Blowing up the universe isn't really the Rani's style. She isn't evil just for the sake of it like the Master and Davros are. She is just interested in her little science experiments, and doesn't care who has to die for her scientific progress. I can't really see her trying to blow up the universe. It may have been a Silence or a member of their movement whose voice we heard. They could have said "Silence will fall" as a warning, or to explain why they were blowing the thing up, without expecting the explosion to cause the destruction of the entire universe. Icecreamdif talk to me 02:34, January 10, 2012 (UTC)
the master and davros aren't just evil for the sake of it. no one is. they're crazy, which is why they appear evil to us. Imamadmad talk to me 06:58, January 10, 2012 (UTC)
Perhaps not, but both are much more evil than the Rani, and The Master, at least, enjoys killing and being evil much more than the Rani does. The Master and Davros have both shown that they are capable of destroying the universe (well, in the Master's case it was more of allowing the universe to be destroyed if its people didn't accept his demands), but I can't really see the Rani doing that. The Master is usually after power or something equally valuable, and Davros wants to make the Daleks work without betraying him for once, but the Rani really just wants to get on with her experiments in peace.Icecreamdif talk to me 07:39, January 10, 2012 (UTC)
One or two humans have consciously set out to be "evil just for the sake of it" -- but they've done that because, frankly, they were nutters. (Aleister Crowley did and, though he was very unpleasant indeed, didn't even manage to do any very large-scale evil.) The Master and Davros aren't that kind of nutter. Neither of them aims at evil because it's evil; they aim at power, domination, rulership, whatever you want to call it. They're willing to do anything, no matter how evil (in the opinions of others), to attain that. Each one's insanity is in being utterly convinced that him being in absolute power over everything is so good that it outweighs every other consideration. The loonies think it's right! The Rani was a third variety of nutter; her obsession wasn't power but her research. Nevertheless, it was still an obsession. Blowing up the universe really isn't her style. The Master wouldn't even blow up Earth, when it would have taken him with it. Davros was willing to destroy the universe, except for him and the Daleks. If blowing up the universe really was the intention, there are really only two kinds of possible culprit: 1. A frustrated megalomaniac -- "If I can't have it, nobody will!" 2. Someone who believes (accurately or not) that he can survive doing it. The trouble is, we can't be sure whoever blew up the TARDIS did intend to destroy the universe. It might have been a miscalculation, which widens the field substantially. --89.241.73.161talk to me 07:55, January 10, 2012 (UTC)
We probably won't have a real answer until we learn what "silence will fall" actually means. Just to throw another random theory out there, maybe some entity wanted to blow up the TARDIS to cause silence to fall but needed to know the Doctor's name to do so. This entity found out the Doctor's name at Trenzalore, and used that knowledge to somehow blow up the TARDIS in The Pandorica Opens. The alliance attempted to prevent this from happening by locking the Doctor in a box, but the Silence attempted to save the universe by killing the Doctor in The Impossible Astronaut.Icecreamdif talk to me 08:07, January 10, 2012 (UTC)
Icecreamdif, "maybe some entity wanted to blow up the TARDIS to cause silence to fall but needed to know the Doctor's name to do so..." etc. If that idea is right, it could be that the Silence has been trying to kill the Doctor in order to prevent a catastrophe (the destruction of the universe by exploding TARDIS) that the Doctor has already remedied another way (The Big Bang). There's something appealing in the thought that the Silence might be going to all this trouble completely unnecessarily! --89.242.64.17talk to me 15:30, January 10, 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, that's pretty much where I was going with that theory. It could be interesting to see the Doctor trying to persuade the Silence that past-him already prevented silence from falling.Icecreamdif talk to me 21:35, January 10, 2012 (UTC)
Or Amy using the same line she did to Rory at the end of The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe: "We've already done that bit." -- (Was 89 etc. but IP address changed) 2.101.54.163talk to me 22:00, January 10, 2012 (UTC)
