Howling:The woman Wilf saw... she is a Time Lady.
Please DO NOT add to this discussion.
“I like leaving it open, because then you can imagine what you want. I think the fans will say it's Romana. Or even the Rani. Some might say that it's Susan's mother, I suppose. But of course it’s meant to be the Doctor’s mother” “I like leaving it open, because then you can imagine what you want. I think the fans will say it's Romana. Or even the Rani. Some might say that it's Susan's mother, I suppose. But of course it’s meant to be the Doctor’s mother” “I like leaving it open, because then you can imagine what you want. I think the fans will say it's Romana. Or even the Rani. Some might say that it's Susan's mother, I suppose. But of course it’s meant to be the Doctor’s mother”
I Googled Claire Bloom and recognized the picture: the woman Wilf saw in the church, the one that dissapeared. She is creidted as playing 'The Woman'. She was listed with all the named Time Lords/Ladies appearing in The End of Time (The Doctor, the Master, The Second, The Partsian, The Visionary, the Narrator, ect..), and she herself has a titled name.
Most of us probably agree that she is a Time Lady, and has been rumoured to be playing the Doctor's mother (I support this). The Doctor mentioned that he keeps running into Wilf and finds it odd - same thing happened with his relative, Donna (note: same thing happened, and they would be related). So why would a Time Lady, of all things, contact Wilf?
You know what I find stranger? She knows things about him, she mentions his time in the war. Time Lady talking to Wilf adbout his time in the war... Yeah. It is leading me to believe she might be refering toi the Time War, that Wilf is a Time Lord himself. That old box of things he has could have an old fob watch. With the Time Lords returning, and especially how of all times for Donna and her memories to be returning being with them coming back, and how her relative is being contacted by a presumed Time Lady called 'The Woman' and he keeps running into the Doctor (of which Donna did, too), it is all really making me think he is a Time Lord.
The word "Time Lord" can be made out of "Wilfred Mott" rearranged with three extra letters left (f t w), too. Let the Donna theorises come back! But yeah, by dafult, I believe Wilf is a Time Lord and Donna, in turn (and the fact that her memories are coming back at the same time as the Time Lord's returning), is of Time Lord descent- born on Earth, but still of descent, and parhaps the war that was mentioned by 'The Woman' was the Time War, and maybe Wilf escaped it and did the whole human thing a long time ago. I don't know what to make of Slyvia, though.
There was a mentioned of the mother-daughter relationship between Donna and Slyvia in Journey's End with Slyvia calling Donna her daughter, and the Doctor reply, "Then maybe you should tell her that once in a while." I like to interpret it as a hint that maybe Donna isn't really her daughter- maybe adopted. Heck, Wilf adopted Slyiva if he became human at some point? You never know.
I'm just seeing quite a few odd things involving Wilf and Donna. I'm just annoyed by the family relation to Slyvia and how it would affect that- nothing odd about her other than her bad moods. In Turn Left, Rose mentioned that even without the Time Bettle, they read sepperate strange energies coming from Donna, and they had always been there, that is something else I found odd. Delton Menace 00:50, December 26, 2009 (UTC)
Even though Sylvia refers to Wilf as 'Dad', he could be her father-in-law - that could explain him and Donna both having Time-Lord DNA and not Sylvia.
I do not think Wilf is Syvia's father in law, her husband Goeff was named Noble if Wilf was Geoffs dad then it would the family would have been mott. Mott is Sylvia's maiden name she married Geoff. Plus Wilf could have been a time lord hence his interest in aliens. Used a chameilon arch had children Sylvia who had a daughter. Thouhg one thing does not add up after the Pythia died on Gallifrey Time Lordswhere born in Looms. --Catkind121 11:57, December 26, 2009 (UTC)
A few thing don't add up, but I can't really ignore these weird things about Wilf, and the same applies to weird things about Donna. I question the family realionships because I can picture Donna and Wilf going Time Lord-y, but not Sylvia. We'll see what happens, I guess. Delton Menace 13:29, December 26, 2009 (UTC)
Just a mad thought, if The Woman is the aforementioned mother of the doctor, could it be possible that Wilf is the doctor's father with his memory altered, hence the hint drops about the war. Geffe71 20:38, December 29, 2009 (UTC)
I thought that, too, but it was confirmed in episode commentery that Wilf is human, and the war refers to World War II. Delton Menace 23:29, December 29, 2009 (UTC)
ah. i dont listen to commentaries till they are on the dvd. thanks for the update Geffe71 03:57, December 30, 2009 (UTC)
I don't know if anyone has thought of it, but could the Woman in fact be Romana? If she was deposed and replaced by Rassilon, we know that former presidents do serve on the Hight Council from the novel the Eight Doctors, it would also explain why the Doctor trusted her and why she may have been one of the two time lords that opposed Rassilon. User: Mycroft HolmesMycroft Holmes 10:11, January 3, 2010 (UTC)
Julie Gardner came right out and said "She's the Doctor's mother, let's just accept it, Russel" or something like that in part 2 later commentery. This episode was to chronicle the Doctor's descission to give up his mother, someone he loved, to save time itself. Delton Menace 14:32, January 3, 2010 (UTC)
The Doctor's mother was my first thought watching it; instinct would seem to point in that direction. The other logical choice, which occured to me was that it could be Susan; when Wilf asked the Doctor about the identity of the woman, the camera focussed on Wilf and then Donna, which could suggest a similar relationship between the Doctor and the woman. Having said that, my thoughts are that she was indeed his mother. Her sacrifice of her life (and position in the Council) and protectiveness of the Doctor seem consistent with what a parent would do to look after their child. CB
A lot of things in The End of Time were only revealed in commentery, much to Russell T. Davies regret. When writing the episode, he himself didn't really know who she was, but he was intending her to be the Doctor's mother, so that makes the looking at Donna thing slihglty irrelivant because it wasn't in his intention. They were discussing the Woman in the commentary, and their ultimate descission ended as his mother.
They said something about how she, being his mother, was guiding him to make the right choice when they saw each other in the episode: she was indirectly telling him to send them back into the war because she loves him as her son. Something like that, they said. The scene where they saw each other was a sort of mother/son moment where she helped him make the right choice. If you watch when the Doctor is deciding who to shot, she looks at him and moves her eyes t the direction ot the diamond before he makes his choice.
But it doesn't take the mystery away: why was she lost? How did she keep appearing everywhere? Why was she weeping? And who was the Time Lord stood opposite her, the one who never uncovers his face? Delton Menace 16:55, January 3, 2010 (UTC)
- I was wondering the same thing, if the only way for the TLs to escape the time-lock is via the drums/Master, then how did she appear to Wilf? To be honest it's a shame that RTD has stated that she was his mother, having brought back the Master/Daleks/Cybermen/SJS the temptation must be there to bring back some of the other companions as well and her being either Susan or Romana would fit nicely.--Terahurts 16:27, January 10, 2010 (UTC)
- Well, Susan could work as The Doctor's mother in a convoluted way. And Lungbarrow hinted that Leela could be his mother. But Romana, I don't really see. Are there any hints for that anywhere? Besides, if The Doctor and Romana were sleeping together, that's just wrong. :) --99.8.229.156 10:24, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
She looks older whenever she appears to Wilfred, and and she acts as if she is no longer 'be'. But it's a completely different case when she was with the Time Lords, she wore different clothes, looked younger, and... Well, it is generally assumed that the Woman when she appears to Wilf is from the future, as in on her personal timeline. When she appears to him, she meant lost by saying she had died in the Time War. Delton Menace 19:11, January 10, 2010 (UTC)
I initially thought she was the Doctor's daughter. He talks about being a father, and they have a moment when she reveals her face. I don't know. It just seems right. Meh.
I saw an excerpt from "The Writer's Tale" in which Davies says "I like leaving it open, because then you can imagine what you want. I think the fans will say it's Romana. Or even the Rani. Some might say that it's Susan's mother, I suppose. But of course it's meant to be the Doctor's mother." -- Noneofyourbusiness 16:56, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
Noneofyourbusiness, EVERYONE is the Rani! Don't you know that buy now? Rose is the Rani, Donna is the Rani, River Song is the Rani, Rani is the Rani, I'm the Rani... I'm slowly lossing my respect for Who fans. Don't go there about the Rani- most Who fans think everyone is the Rani, and it isn't even funny anymore. Some people think Sally Sparrow is the Rani. It's madness.
As for in the episode itself, when asked who the Woman was, the Doctor looks at Slyvia (mother), and then Donna (her child). That's basically mother to child when he got asked who she was. It should also be noted that the Woman was contacting Wilf, whom is a farther figure to the Doctor, making the Woman fit the description of a mother figure. Delton Menace 19:18, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
That is an actual excerpt from the book, RTD actually said that, he said that fans will think its so and so. dont go after noneofyourbusiness for something RTD put in his book, yell at RTD. http://www.sfx.co.uk/page/sfx?entry=20_things_we_learnt_from Geffe71 21:19, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
I'm just sick and tired of everyone being the Rani. Every time a new female character is introduced, what do fans say? "She must be the Rani!" God, it's so annoying.It was quite obvious that she intended to be the Doctor's mother, though: she contacts the Doctor's "farther figure", she helps guide him at the end in a sort of mother/son way when they see each other, and wehn asked who she was, the Doctor looks at Donna's mother and then Donna. I wish he would say something about the timeline, though!
But I think it is bloody brilliant Martha was going to be in The Sarah Jane Adventures! I wish she was! I mean, that would make her the first major crossover charatcer on all three shows. I love continuity. They better have her in the fourth series. I get exited just at Trinity Wells appearing in all three shows.
Delton Menace 05:47, January 14, 2010 (UTC)
I know what you mean. -- Noneofyourbusiness 14:00, January 14, 2010 (UTC)
I personally think it would be more meaningful if the character were to turn out to be someone known to us (Susan, White Guardian, or whomever). At least some resolution would have been nice, I think. Hopefully they circle back at some point and address it somehow in a future story. I have to say I never got any kind of "the Doctor's mother" reference form the story itself. That may have been RTD's intention, but since it was left unclear in the story future writers certainly have the flexibility to go in a different direction. Spreee 18:42, January 19, 2010 (UTC)Spreee
Wehn asked who the Woman was, the Doctor looks at Donna's mother and then Donna, indicating a mother/child relationship. The Woman was contacting Wilf, the Doctor's farther figure, giving her a mother figure nature, ect.. And Steven Moffat doesn't really plan on bringing anyone back, either. Delton Menace 20:49, January 19, 2010 (UTC)
I know it was RTD's intention that she's "the DoctorMom", but the glances in the wedding scene are pretty darn subtle and open to interpretation. Some people took that to mean that the Woman was a future form of Donna somehow, or that it's the Doctor's granddaughter (since Wilf asked the question, then the Doctor glanced over at Wilf's granddaughter). Either of those would be a clearer explanation of the "I was lost once..." comment, too. Well, you never know. Nice thing about Doctor Who, they could leave it speculative and then come back to address it five years from now or something :) Spreee 15:58, January 20, 2010 (UTC)Spreee
If she is his mother, the reference to "Half Human" on his mother's side could reference a certain series of values and/or interests she had instilled in him. The fact that she was one of only two Time Lords on the Council to oppose the final sanction (three if you include the poor councilor who was killed at the beginning of the episode) suggests that she held certain personal values which were similar to the Doctor's. As his mother, she may have introduced him to humans and human culture; it may even be one the driving forces behind his affinity with the people of Earth; his mother valued them...just a thought. CB
In the movie the Master was able to tell that the Doctor was half human by scanning him (or something). In the movie, The Doctor was intended to literally be half humanIcecreamdif 04:29, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
Rose
I was just watching the End of Time on IPlayer there, and one thing I noticed is, the Bad Wolf theme plays when the Doctor looks at the Woman, which implies that it could even be Rose. --The Thirteenth Doctor 20:17, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
There is no possible way that she can be Rose. She looks nothing like Rose, and the Doctor recognized her, so there can't have been some kind of offscreen regeneration. Rose can't change her appearance anyway, because she is a human. The woman came from Gallifrey during the Time War. When the Doctor told Rose about the timewar in the End of the World, she had clearly never heard of it. The Woman returned to the Time War with the rest of the Timelords when the Tenth Doctor destroyed the diamond, so she died with the rest of the Timewar combatants when the Eigth Doctor burned Gallifrey. The Woman could not have survived past the Timewar to become Rose. The Woman seems to be a Timelord, who the Doctor knew and cared about. The Bad Wolf theme isn't just about Rose. It plays when emotional Timelord stuff is happenning, and the Doctor's reunion with the Women was clearly emotional.Icecreamdif 23:01, January 3, 2011 (UTC)
That was the Doctor's theme playing at that point. The only time Rose's theme occurred was right at the beginning of her only scene where those familiar piano chords were played. The Doctor's theme is much different than Rose's, although it has many variations and acts as a leitmotif in many of Doctor Who's larger musical movements. Right when the 10th Doctor regenerates it can be heard being sung by a choir, while when the 9th Doctor talks about what happened to Gallifrey in The End Of The World, a quieter, more soothing version is used. A very similar version can be heard at the end of Forest Of The Dead, although it then becomes grander in style. It can also be heard when Martha reveal ther plan to the Master in The Last of The Time Lords. It's true that this theme tied in with Badwolf throughout the 9th Doctor's career, and it featured heavily with connection to Rose just before the Doctor fell into the Satan Pit, but its broadened usage makes it unlikely that it is connected only with Rose."Rose", "The End of the World", "Boom Town", "Bad Wolf", "The Parting of the Ways", "The Christmas Invasion", "The Satan Pit", "Fear Her" (Variations in "Love & Monsters)", "The Runaway Bride", "Human Nature", "Last of the Time Lords", "Partners in Crime", "Forest of the Dead", "Turn Left", "Journey's End", "The End of Time, Part Two" all have his theme to some extent. Meanwhile, we all know the 11th Doctor's theme...Ladon 07:42, January 4, 2011 (UTC)
