Howling:What was in the Doctor's room in God Complex?
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I was watching this episode again today and started thinking about what was in his room, so I've been looking for some theories on what was in his room but nobody's said mine so I thought I'd throw it out there. I think he saw David Tennant (himself as 10) having sex with Rose. Here's why. Every room isn't necessarily the person's greatest fear; they always refer to the things in the rooms as "bad dreams." I mostly think this because as he leaves, he puts the "Do Not Disturb" sign on the door, which sort of signals something is going on inside he wouldn't want anybody else to see. This seems like it would logically be his worst dream because of how in love with Rose he is, but didn't get to be with her even though she got to be with him. Has anybody else thought of this?
- Please sign your posts. Thanks. I'm actually surprised you listened to me. Anyways, on topic: Did you notice the cloister bell in the background? It sounds when there's a danger in the TARDIS. Let's go through what we know: the person who hates the Doctor the most is himself. His worst fear could be what he thinks he may become, as he's becoming more and more ruthless, that he'll slowly turn evil (ie. Valeyard) Or it could be himself alone, meaning that Ponds will have gone (ie. his worst fear is losing the people closest to him - it certainly has an impact on him as shown in The Snowmen). It could be him dying, or watching River have to go through killing him. The possibilities are endless. What are other theories that you've come across? SmallerOnTheOutside ☎ 05:43, January 28, 2013 (UTC)
I think it was in Mind of Evil, though I could be remembering wrong, that there was a similar concept where there was a machine or something which made people see their worst fears or something like that. When the Doctor was affected, one could see fire and hear the Daleks screaming "exterminate!" Maybe, building on that, the Doctor's worst dream now would have something to do with the Daleks and destroying his planet. It could be seeing the Daleks having killed someone he loved, or the devastation that happened on his own planet because of the Daleks happening on another planet, maybe his beloved Earth. Anyway, I expect it to have something to do with the Daleks and/or the Time War. I really don't think it would be Rose and Meta-Ten... y'know. This is a family show and website. Imamadmad ☎ 05:53, January 28, 2013 (UTC)
- Interesting thought, actually. I didn't think of the Time War. But I still think it has more to do with his future than with his past. I like my earlier idea of himself becoming evil and destroying worlds himself (a stretch of the choices he makes now - destroying one group to save another). He didn't seem particularly happy to find that "doctor" means "mighty warrior" in a lot of languages. Eleven's slowly slipping into a "Time Lord Victorious" phase. He's turning darker. He's afraid he's making the wrong choices and he's afraid that in the future he'll have an even bigger choice to make and he'll make the wrong decision. SmallerOnTheOutside ☎ 06:04, January 28, 2013 (UTC)
It's probably something to do with losing companions. Note how he drops Amy and Rory off back on Earth after this adventure, like he saw the loss of his companions coming. 94.72.235.63talk to me 16:57, January 28, 2013 (UTC)
Maybe it was Adric. Bit of a nightmare for so many reasons. --89.241.64.101talk to me 03:37, January 29, 2013 (UTC)
Well, that all depends on how one sees Adric in said nightmare. Maybe The Doctor saw Adric surviving?
In all seriousness, though, I'm sure it's to do with losing companions. Or maybe he saw himself? 94.72.235.63talk to me 16:30, January 29, 2013 (UTC)
- Which is pretty much my suggestion. Himself, or what he thinks he is, or what he thinks he'll become. SmallerOnTheOutside ☎ 04:47, January 30, 2013 (UTC)
I imagine himself crying, standing over the Pond's dead bodies. Opalsaloony- We are the Superior Beings 09:42, February 1, 2013 (UTC)
Although there's a lot of merit in the "death of companions" idea, the one thing we actually know about whatever was in that room is that the Cloister Bell was tolling. That certainly doesn't exclude the "death of companions" idea but it does mean there'd have to be more to it than that. Some kind of ultimate disaster -- perhaps one that was the Doctor's own fault. --89.241.72.95talk to me 09:53, February 1, 2013 (UTC)
There's a short story called The Fear that suggests the thing the Doctor fears most is losing his mind. This could fit with the Cloister Bell, as he and the TARDIS are so connected, but I can't see how that would be depicted in a hotel room. Shambala108 ☎ 15:19, February 1, 2013 (UTC)
Easily. A crazy Doctor in a TARDIS. 94.72.235.63talk to me 17:01, February 1, 2013 (UTC)
Possibly a crazy Doctor in a TARDIS standing over the bodies of companions, with the Cloister Bell tolling to indicate a major disaster was imminent, because of their deaths. The Complex played on existing fears, so that last bit wouldn't need to be shown explicitly. The Doctor's own interpretation would supply it. The resulting scenario is: Doctor has lost his mind, got his companions killed & the universe is about to be destroyed because of it -- the ultimate screw-up! --89.240.250.22talk to me 03:45, February 2, 2013 (UTC)
All great thoughts - but some of you are losing sight of the "Who else?" comment. Who indeed? AthertonX ☎ 06:33, February 12, 2013 (UTC) I feel like it's himself and the poignance of that - especially with the throwaway manner in which it's treated ...
I have this picture that he saw himself, so far beyond despair, so far beyond evil, giving in and becoming all that he hates, destroying everything, on purpose, because he has come to believe it was the right thing to do. Moreover, his reaction implies that it would be easy - so easy - to do, especially if he loses the balance of empathy and compassion that he uses his companions to refresh. Essentially, I believe he saw himself become like Rassilion at the end of the Time War - consumed by the hubris to which he knows he is prone.ComicBookGoddess ☎ 04:58, March 3, 2013 (UTC)
I think Adric is likely, but it could be any companion who has died, or all of them, such as Jamie, Gus or Ace. Or it could be someone he feels guilty about, perhaps Susan. Probably not Aunt Sally, though. --Graske of the Mandragora 09:55, April 23, 2013 (UTC)
We now have a new possibility: The unknown (John Hurt) incarnation, who's "not the Doctor", from The Name of the Doctor. --2.96.17.223talk to me 08:00, May 23, 2013 (UTC)
- I was thinking that. Also, the room being #11 could be: he's the 11th to be called "the Doctor" while reminding him of the lie that he's not actually his 11th incarnation (if Hurt is between McGann and Eccleston). Of course, him smiling and the light-sounding music aren't very indicative of him seeing a past life that has been "disowned". —BioniclesaurKing4t2 - "Hello, I'm the Doctor. Basically, . . . run." 22:27, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
- Since whatever was in the room was supposed to be his greatest fear, the smile & the music wouldn't really fit anyone it might be. They also don't fit the Cloister Bell tolling. --89.242.73.110talk to me 23:39, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
Working from the language and the story, I think we may have to go a different direction. The point of the fear was to cause people to summon up their faith, expose in what they have faith. The 10th Doctor once said, of Rose,
- I've seen fake gods and bad gods,demi-gods and would be gods. I've had the whole pantheon. But if I belive in one thing, just one thing, I belive in her.
The question might be, what could he see that would bring that out now? And could it have anything to do with why Rose is supposed to be in the anniversary show?Phil Stone ☎ 15:25, June 3, 2013 (UTC)
Even if the idea hadn't occurred at the time to Toby Whithouse (who wrote The God Complex) or to Moffat, there's nothing to stop Moffat deciding later on that that's what happened. Because we didn't see who/what was in the room, he can "retcon" it any way that suits him. The question is: Who/what would make the Doctor rely on Rose & rely on her to that extent? --89.240.250.172talk to me 18:08, June 3, 2013 (UTC)
- I was 2 (not 89) when I suggested the same at 08:00, May 23, 2013 (UTC), above, but obviously "great minds think alike." --89.240.250.172talk to me 22:31, June 3, 2013 (UTC)
- D'uh! When I see a long, long page of text, I usually read the OP, skim the middle and then read the most recent replies. I missed that completely. And, while it "makes sense" that it would be Hurt, I'm now think "No"...mainly because it seemed like Hurt was a source of shame and regret for the Eleventh, not fear. Badwolff ☎ 22:39, June 3, 2013 (UTC)
I oould tend to agree. His concern for being there seems not to be connected to Hurt so much as the laws of time being problematic about him going to his own future tomb, just as he doesn't want to cross his own timeline normally.
As for Rose, her "task" is to keep 10.1 out of trouble. Perhaps if the Doctor saw 10.1 doing something like Hurt did, or with Hurt? But the faith in Rose approach depends on the maze presenting,perhaps not the greatest fear, but something calculated to demand faith as a reaction. And that seems not only a bit convoluted, but not as good an explanation for what we actually saw in the rooms. For example, the teasing by girls doesn't strike me as designed to stimulate notions of CIA conspiracies, but it could easily go to a basic fear.Phil Stone ☎ 03:03, June 4, 2013 (UTC)--Phil Stone ☎ 03:03, June 4, 2013 (UTC)
- I agree with that. I thought the Doctor just saw himself. It was a matter of specifics he just knows the sort of things he's capable of. In The God Complex faith was simply presented as something people fall back on when faced with fear not something the trap is calculated to produce. The beginning of the show was that the diary read, I didn't know what it was but when I discovered it, it couldn't be anything else.DCT ☎ 12:31, June 4, 2013 (UTC)
Rose, first & foremost, was the one who healed the Doctor after the Time War. That was what he said when they finally parted & he left the Meta-Crisis Doctor with her. Keeping him out of trouble, apart from being virtually impossible (he's the Doctor, after all), was very much secondary & she was often as keen to get involved in trouble as he was. The opening of The Impossible Planet illustrates that. To both of them, the idea of just going away & not finding out what was wrong (i.e., idea of staying out of trouble) was simply a joke. The Doctor (as the Master pointed out) is the one who "makes people better". Rose was the one who made him better. --89.240.250.172talk to me 03:38, June 4, 2013 (UTC)
Sorry, I was unclear. By "stay out of trouble" I meant steer him to act the way the Doctor would, ie no more genocide, or other things that the Doctor would (no longer) consider doing. The question becomes whether Rose could make John Hurt better before he does what he did? Or, could she help him to notmake a habit of it once done once? But I dont see how it relates to the Doctor's room.Phil Stone ☎ 04:43, June 6, 2013 (UTC)
In that case, what you meant by keeping him of trouble was at least part of what I meant by healing him, though I also had in mind her effect on his feelings about himself.
The only way I can see that being connected with whatever was in the Doctor's room is if what he's most afraid of is what he might become (which is possible) & he'd rely on Rose to steer him away from becoming that. I'm not convinced by the latter part of that idea. (I was 89 earlier.) --2.101.59.118talk to me 09:59, June 6, 2013 (UTC)
I think and this is my personal opinion that he sees an older self standing over the bodies of dead companions and him no longer caring or he sacrificed them for the 'bigger picture' because of what i've seen from the ninth and tenth doctor is that the only thing keeping him sane is that he feels guilty of what he did to the Time lords and true fear is when sees himself no longer caring about the lives he takes which I think the John Hurt doctor did losing the right to call himself the doctor as he no longer 'make people better'.abdikko ☎ 23:18 June 27, 2013 (UTC)
What he saw in that room was John Hurt holding a sign. "You will never be ginger."– The preceding unsigned comment was added by 92.15.128.191 (talk).
He said of course who else with that logic he probably means himself. I mean who else could it be. He put do not disturb sign , when thinking about it no one in there knows Doctor's past , so even if they have entered the room they wouldn't have recognised who was inside except the Doctor himself. And the room's number was 11 , as an indicator of 11th Doctor. And I don't think there was any body of old companions , because he didn't seem disturbed at all. And for John Hurt he can't be beacuse when he saw him in his own time stream he freaked out. About Valeyard or Dream Lord I am not so sure but they are in essence The Doctor , so just seeing one dark part doesn't make sense. But himself as a whole about everything who he is. That is the right answer in my opinion of course. The lonely Doctor.– The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.235.194.86 (talk).
Well looks like this has finally been revealed. I'm surprised nobody on here guessed the cracks. 87.102.91.126talk to me 23:14, December 25, 2013 (UTC)
- Are you being ironic? Probably because he said "Who else" the cracked time field is not a "who" in any recognized understanding. This episode was entertaining but as resolutions go it's the most disappointing episode I can remember seeing in quite some time.DCT ☎ 14:46, December 28, 2013 (UTC)
Was the light in his eye crack-shaped in The God Complex, or was that an edit for the flashback? Wibbly-Wobbly ☎ 05:27, December 27, 2013 (UTC)
I imagine it was an edit. If the reflection had been visible in the actual Series 6 episode some Whovian somewhere would have noticed it. 87.102.91.126talk to me 23:15, December 27, 2013 (UTC)
DCT it would probably have been better if you'd put your paragraph down here. I nearly didn't notice it. As for your question, no I am not being ironic. I don't remember The Doctor saying "who else" instead of "what else". Are you sure that's what he said? 87.102.91.126talk to me 01:12, December 29, 2013 (UTC)
I am fairly sure that he did say, " who else " but now with all this information maybe, he understood that the Time Lords were to be present through the crack.
Remember when he sees what we now know as the crack, we hear the sound the Tardis makes when it lands (you know the BONG sound). I think when he sees it he didn't fear the crack itself but the implication behind it. He feared the idea that his actions would have a negative effect on the people around him (eg his tardis explodes and affects amy). Makes sense since The God Complex's underlying theme was him letting go of his companions before something bad happens, hence Rita dying reiterated this. -Mr Charles (April 16 2014)
It's probably the incarnation of his that destroyed Gallifrey. -me
Perhaps the crack asked him, "Doctor Who?" To which he replied, "Who else?" 24.18.188.4talk to me 04:52, January 17, 2014 (UTC)
Jan 17 How about the simple answer? Everyone he never saved. Every person that died as a result of him popping up, all standing together in the same room. A manifestation of all the sadness that has kept him running this whole time. "Who else?" Onslot5810@gmail Jordan– The preceding unsigned comment was added by CallmeTREEHOUSE (talk • contribs) .
I though it was his tomb at Trenzalore, the "scar tissue", because the cloister bell, but if you look at the reflection in his eyes, it was mostly likely the crack in the town of Christmas. I think there was a point during the episode that that is either confirmed or it's likely hood goes up during The Time of the Doctor, but I haven't rewatched it at all, so I'm uncertain. Masterpwn ☎ 17:34, April 16, 2014 (UTC)
I think he saw The War Doctor. He always felt like that was his greatest failing he became what he never wanted and he failed to live up to the name of the Doctor. @24... Suspect you may be joking but to avoid confusion it shoukld be pointed out that the Doctor didn't know the question at that point so such an occurrence would cause a clash with the close of the series.DCT ☎ 16:00, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
Bit late to add to this, and I know the 'chose' the crack for a reveal... but I dont think that's what had been intended originally. I think it was supposed to be something that is also a someone... and we met her a year before... The TARDIS. What he saw was the TARDIS. The one thing that, after everything, his whole life, she had been there always (and always would be, right to the end...) and he saw his fear, loosing the TARDIS. How that would translate to something he could see in a second, I'm still thinking over... AlexMcpherson ☎ 16:52, August 9, 2014 (UTC)
Hmm, in the context of the series that could work slightly but it would still be more logical for the Doctor to see he actually TARDIS and say "what else?" it's just less awkward. I'm not against the crack being part of the Doctor's fear but I think it should really be the Silence. Steven Moffat may have overreached himself with the Silence they're too involved to be as scary as he'd like the audience to think they are. The only really work if you're a conspiracy nut. But the Doctor's is the sort of man who prizes knowledge as his greatest weapon. It would make sense for him to be afraid of a mortal enemy he can discover nothing about.DCT ☎ 13:19, August 23, 2014 (UTC)
Here's my working theory, which relates to the current season 8 story as I know of: What does the Doctor fear? Growing old, and eventually dying. He knows it is his last regeneration, he knows that he can go no further. I think, in his room, he sees the TARDIS at his grave on Trenzalore. His tomb, his death. It explains the TARDIS sound heard. As for his comment "Who else", perhaps he simply means it couldn't have been anyone but himself. This fear of growing old shows in the beginning of Season 8, though the fear of death is less obvious. Perhaps the Doctor's faith is that some day his journey will end. After all, death would be a gift to such an old being, as made clear in the end of the episode. And we at the end of the season that he is cursed to live, when he decides to end the time war. Food for thought. I'm sorry, the beginning of that was poorly thought out. It is a fear of an everlasting life, not death. The Doctor wouldn't fear death, as that would be a well received gift. Instead, he fears never obtaining it. Maybe then he sees a future generation of himself, an old version of himself. Just throwing out ideas.
Yeah, again, you're forgetting what is or isn't known at the time of The God Complex. The Doctor, at that time did not know the name Trenzalore or that itt was the location of his grave. He knew the Silence where trying to kill him over some question they thought was incredibly dangerous. The TARDIS sound was the cloister bell and we wouldn't hear that once the TARDIS was dead, which it basically was in The Name Of The Doctor. That certainly wasn't thought out it reads like you've done a complete 180 while writing it, which sometimes can happen. Certainly the fear in his room is meant to provoke his faith but it's hard to believe the Doctor has faith in death he tried very hard to avoid it right until the Brigadier died. It's not in the Doctor's character to embrace his death when he spends all his lie fighting it on behalf of others. And anyway how would the Doctor recognize a future version of himself? And if he did it would likely undermine his reaction to the events on Trenzalore. It made sense, at one time, for the Doctor, maybe, to have seen his 'secret' self and say "who else?" that doesn't fit with a future self he had never encountered and couldn't be expect to remember. Remember that the point of The Time Of The Doctor was that a brand new Doctor should mean a brand new story. That's why it's so infuriating. Trying to connect Peter Capaldi's arc to Matt Smith's arc is against the spirit of the episode. Steven Moffat may do it. But it would be a tacit admission of getting it wrong.DCT ☎ 15:42, September 1, 2014 (UTC)
He saw the crack on trenzalore and the timelords inside... Who else. --71.96.51.204talk to me 02:27, December 3, 2014 (UTC)
I think the doctor saw himself as the the X doctor. This is the form of himself that could not save people.
There are several different ideas on this topic, some are far fetched and some plausible. I think everything needed to make an accurate assumption of what's in The Doctor's room is given in the episode and doesn't require foreknowledge. Here's my proposal. It's the Eleventh Doctor all alone, or rather him standing over Amy's body or both Amy and Rory's bodies(because of the bells) and he's in mourning, dwelling on the mistakes or bad decisions that lead to this and needs to be alone(hence the "do not disturb" sign). Let's start with the room, it's number 11, one can almost safely say this is referring to his 11 incarnation, so the other ideas about the Tenth Doctor shouldn't be considered since at that moment he is no longer him. The title "God Complex" is a pretty big hint as well. To the Doctor, it's always up to him to solve the problem at hand whether or not there's a good outcome. Over the years and countless adventures, he's come to realize that he can't save everyone in his line of work and can't keep those he cares about close to him or he may lose them. After he looks in his door(If my guess is correct) he knows he has to cut Amy and Rory loose before his fears come to pass, but it's not until after Rita is killed by the Minotaur and Amy is next on the list that he is forced to make the decision to cast away his friends to save them rather then the alternative of them dying one day because of him. "Amy begins to feel the Minotaur changing her, and the Doctor suddenly insists that he can't save her. He laments having stolen her childhood and leading her to her death, which he claims to have always known would happen because it always does. Requesting that she forget her faith in him, he insists that he really is "just a madman with a box" as he'd told her all those years before, and that it's time to see each other as they really are." At the end of the episode The Doctor parts ways with the Williams in fear that one day he's going to make a decision that will get them killed.
- Yeah, again the Doctor's words upon seeing the contents of the room are "Who else?" referring to a single individual or personal agency a thing or event such as the death of Amy, Rory or both would be "What else?"DCT ☎ 13:20, August 29, 2015 (UTC)
Is it not obvious? It is not just himself, or his companions dying... Maybe what he saw was simply the passing of time itself? What if he saw what he saw as a child, when he gazed into the time vortex? He saw that whatever he do, he cannot stop time from taking every companion, from turning even the Good Man insane? Maybe he simply saw the one thing that scares him; the truth that whatever he ever try to do, time will inevitably end all that he loves and holds dear. The truth that even he, the Lord of Time, cannot escape its passing, no matter how much he runs? --Simtexa ☎ 00:39, March 15, 2016 (UTC)
