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Forum:Story Numbering: Difference between revisions
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:Oh wow, I never noticed that before. '''Our numbering scheme is wrong.''' ''Shada'' definitely ''is'' 109. Numbering is a production thing, and from a production standpoint, ''Shada'' exists. It has a production code which remains honored to this day, so therefore it is a "real" story in the order. That's why our "made next/made prev" navigation honors ''Shada''. | :Oh wow, I never noticed that before. '''Our numbering scheme is wrong.''' ''Shada'' definitely ''is'' 109. Numbering is a production thing, and from a production standpoint, ''Shada'' exists. It has a production code which remains honored to this day, so therefore it is a "real" story in the order. That's why our "made next/made prev" navigation honors ''Shada''. | ||
:Our numbering scheme should ''definitely'' honor ''Shada'' as 109. It's completely wrong that ''Shada'' isn't even on our [[list of Doctor Who television stories]]. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}} | :Our numbering scheme should ''definitely'' honor ''Shada'' as 109. It's completely wrong that ''Shada'' isn't even on our [[list of Doctor Who television stories]]. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}}{{User:CzechOut/TimeFormat}}21:24: Sun 15 Jul 2012 </span> | ||
"Honor"? [[User:Boblipton|Boblipton]] <sup>[[User talk:Boblipton|talk to me]]</sup> 21:59, July 15, 2012 (UTC) | "Honor"? [[User:Boblipton|Boblipton]] <sup>[[User talk:Boblipton|talk to me]]</sup> 21:59, July 15, 2012 (UTC) | ||
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:::I'm not actually saying it's a "production thing" in the sense of being used by the production team. I'm saying it's something from a "production point of view". And in this sense, ''Shada'' ''was'' produced, if not finished. The fact that it retains its production code means, to me, that it should also retain a number in the order. And Region 1 DVDs suggest it's 109. | :::I'm not actually saying it's a "production thing" in the sense of being used by the production team. I'm saying it's something from a "production point of view". And in this sense, ''Shada'' ''was'' produced, if not finished. The fact that it retains its production code means, to me, that it should also retain a number in the order. And Region 1 DVDs suggest it's 109. | ||
:::As you point out, though, there is a discrepancy between the Mighty 200 poll and the Region 1 DVD numbering. On this list we at the very least need to acknowledge our sources in the ''lead'' of the article, [[list of Doctor Who television stories]]. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}} | :::As you point out, though, there is a discrepancy between the Mighty 200 poll and the Region 1 DVD numbering. On this list we at the very least need to acknowledge our sources in the ''lead'' of the article, [[list of Doctor Who television stories]]. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}}{{User:CzechOut/TimeFormat}}16:29: Mon 16 Jul 2012 </span> | ||
::::But isn't it right that, at least the [[List of Doctor Who television stories]] ''doesn't'' include ''Shada'' as it was never broadcast? | ::::But isn't it right that, at least the [[List of Doctor Who television stories]] ''doesn't'' include ''Shada'' as it was never broadcast? | ||
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::::So if it's included shouldn't it be under the "Other" title along with [[The Pilot Episode]]? --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] / '''[[User talk:Tangerineduel|talk]]''' 07:20, July 21, 2012 (UTC) | ::::So if it's included shouldn't it be under the "Other" title along with [[The Pilot Episode]]? --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] / '''[[User talk:Tangerineduel|talk]]''' 07:20, July 21, 2012 (UTC) | ||
:It's not really akin to [[the Pilot Episode]], though. The "pilot" was a dress rehearsal of "An Unearthly Child", not a separate story. Its production code was wrenched from it and applied to the later take. And the "pilot" doesn't force a numerical gap in the home video release numbering. ''Shada'' is a totally different situation. When it does get released to DVD, and we all know it will, it'll be numbered 109. We should just face up to that and start renumbering the stories, since it must tediously be done manually. We can then say at [[List of Doctor Who television stories]], "Hey, we know the "Mighty 200" poll doesn't count ''Shada'' or 7A-7D as separate stories, but we do, because 2|Entertain/BBC Video does." At the end of the day, BBC Worldwide is a higher source of information than DWM. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}} | :It's not really akin to [[the Pilot Episode]], though. The "pilot" was a dress rehearsal of "An Unearthly Child", not a separate story. Its production code was wrenched from it and applied to the later take. And the "pilot" doesn't force a numerical gap in the home video release numbering. ''Shada'' is a totally different situation. When it does get released to DVD, and we all know it will, it'll be numbered 109. We should just face up to that and start renumbering the stories, since it must tediously be done manually. We can then say at [[List of Doctor Who television stories]], "Hey, we know the "Mighty 200" poll doesn't count ''Shada'' or 7A-7D as separate stories, but we do, because 2|Entertain/BBC Video does." At the end of the day, BBC Worldwide is a higher source of information than DWM. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}}{{User:CzechOut/TimeFormat}}01:39: Wed 25 Jul 2012 </span> | ||
::You do bring up an interesting thing though. "We all know, it'll be numbered 109". Only those in Region 1 will know that. The Region 2 and Region 4 DVD releases don't have story numbers on them. Hence my question at the start. | ::You do bring up an interesting thing though. "We all know, it'll be numbered 109". Only those in Region 1 will know that. The Region 2 and Region 4 DVD releases don't have story numbers on them. Hence my question at the start. | ||
::So given there has often been some difference between the Region 1 and 2 (Region 4 is usually the same as 2), should we be using ''just'' the Region 1 releases as our only justification to renumber? --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] / '''[[User talk:Tangerineduel|talk]]''' 07:08, July 25, 2012 (UTC) | ::So given there has often been some difference between the Region 1 and 2 (Region 4 is usually the same as 2), should we be using ''just'' the Region 1 releases as our only justification to renumber? --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] / '''[[User talk:Tangerineduel|talk]]''' 07:08, July 25, 2012 (UTC) | ||
:::Location is immaterial to this discussion, isn't it? Surely it doesn't matter ''where in the world'' the BBC have made an official pronouncement as to a story's number. The fact of relevance is merely '''that they ''have'' made it.''' If the situation were reversed, I wouldn't be saying, "Oh, it's only story 109 in London and Melbourne." Now, if there were ''different'' numbers in London and New York, that'd be an issue. But there aren't, so we don't. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}} | :::Location is immaterial to this discussion, isn't it? Surely it doesn't matter ''where in the world'' the BBC have made an official pronouncement as to a story's number. The fact of relevance is merely '''that they ''have'' made it.''' If the situation were reversed, I wouldn't be saying, "Oh, it's only story 109 in London and Melbourne." Now, if there were ''different'' numbers in London and New York, that'd be an issue. But there aren't, so we don't. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}}{{User:CzechOut/TimeFormat}}15:37: Wed 25 Jul 2012 </span> | ||
::::These aren't locations exactly they're commercial markets. | ::::These aren't locations exactly they're commercial markets. | ||
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::::I ask because on the Australian Region 4 releases there is information for the Doctor Who Club of Australia on the back cover. I can't find anything stating they're a licenced by the BBC, but their information is on a BBC licenced product. | ::::I ask because on the Australian Region 4 releases there is information for the Doctor Who Club of Australia on the back cover. I can't find anything stating they're a licenced by the BBC, but their information is on a BBC licenced product. | ||
::::If we're saying that all story numbers and any other information on the DVD covers is official then therefore this is also, despite no corroborating evidence. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] / '''[[User talk:Tangerineduel|talk]]''' 16:03, July 25, 2012 (UTC) | ::::If we're saying that all story numbers and any other information on the DVD covers is official then therefore this is also, despite no corroborating evidence. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] / '''[[User talk:Tangerineduel|talk]]''' 16:03, July 25, 2012 (UTC) | ||
:Why does the license holder need corroborating evidence? It's ''their'' playground. If they want to call it story 109, why should we, or DWM, quibble? The fact that Region 2/4 stuff is ''silent'' means that the Region 1 stuff is ''undisputed'', not unusable. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}} | :Why does the license holder need corroborating evidence? It's ''their'' playground. If they want to call it story 109, why should we, or DWM, quibble? The fact that Region 2/4 stuff is ''silent'' means that the Region 1 stuff is ''undisputed'', not unusable. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}}{{User:CzechOut/TimeFormat}}21:11: Wed 25 Jul 2012 </span> | ||
::If you want "corroboration" though, the official BBC episode guide at http://bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic — itself based on ''[[The Discontinuity Guide]]'' — does list ''Shada'' as the concluding story of season 17. Thus, if one were counting the stories based on that list, ''Shada'' would be 109. So there's two official BBC sources agreed that ''Shada'' is a part of their implied numbering system. | ::If you want "corroboration" though, the official BBC episode guide at http://bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic — itself based on ''[[The Discontinuity Guide]]'' — does list ''Shada'' as the concluding story of season 17. Thus, if one were counting the stories based on that list, ''Shada'' would be 109. So there's two official BBC sources agreed that ''Shada'' is a part of their implied numbering system. | ||
::I'd also attack this from a different angle and say, what's your argument for ''denying'' the BBC pride of place amongst sources? It can't seriously be the fact that they allowed an advertisement for a fan club on the back of a DVD. How will we logically explain to people the we're '''''not''''' using the system on the official DVD releases ''and'' the official website? {{user:CzechOut/Sig}} | ::I'd also attack this from a different angle and say, what's your argument for ''denying'' the BBC pride of place amongst sources? It can't seriously be the fact that they allowed an advertisement for a fan club on the back of a DVD. How will we logically explain to people the we're '''''not''''' using the system on the official DVD releases ''and'' the official website? {{user:CzechOut/Sig}}{{User:CzechOut/TimeFormat}}21:54: Wed 25 Jul 2012 </span> | ||
:::Righty. That's fine. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] / '''[[User talk:Tangerineduel|talk]]''' 07:26, July 26, 2012 (UTC) | :::Righty. That's fine. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] / '''[[User talk:Tangerineduel|talk]]''' 07:26, July 26, 2012 (UTC) | ||
:::The reason I wanted some corroborating evidence is I was curious about whether this was a marketing / graphic design decision for the US/Region 1 market, in a similar vein to including the DWCA info on the Aust/Region 4 DVD. So, as there is other information out there it shows it isn't just a commercial decision to create a collection with in-built numbering for the US market. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] / '''[[User talk:Tangerineduel|talk]]''' 13:31, July 26, 2012 (UTC) | :::The reason I wanted some corroborating evidence is I was curious about whether this was a marketing / graphic design decision for the US/Region 1 market, in a similar vein to including the DWCA info on the Aust/Region 4 DVD. So, as there is other information out there it shows it isn't just a commercial decision to create a collection with in-built numbering for the US market. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] / '''[[User talk:Tangerineduel|talk]]''' 13:31, July 26, 2012 (UTC) | ||
