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Theory:Doctor Who television discontinuity and plot holes/The Pandorica Opens: Difference between revisions
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Theory:Doctor Who television discontinuity and plot holes/The Pandorica Opens (edit)
Revision as of 20:55, 31 January 2015
, 31 January 2015Fixing prev responses, and new responses.
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:: So little is known about River Song, it's possible she's still serving the same sentence a century on - or has been imprisoned for a different crime. | :: So little is known about River Song, it's possible she's still serving the same sentence a century on - or has been imprisoned for a different crime. | ||
::: One wouldn't expect her to be serving the same sentence, because that would contradict her claim in the 51st century that | ::: One wouldn't expect her to be serving the same sentence, because that would contradict her claim in the 51st century that ''The Pandorica'' was earlier in her time-line. | ||
:::: However, that said: don't forget that River is also a time-traveller, and this opens up a huge range of possibilities. E.g. (1) River is imprisoned in the 51st century. (2) She breaks out. (3) She's rearrested in early 52nd century. (4) She takes part in Pandorica where Amy mentions the Byzantium. (5) So, soon after Pandorica/Big Bang, River investigates and realises she needs to go back to 51st century to participate in | :::: However, that said: don't forget that River is also a time-traveller, and this opens up a huge range of possibilities. E.g. (1) River is imprisoned in the 51st century. (2) She breaks out. (3) She's rearrested in early 52nd century. (4) She takes part in Pandorica where Amy mentions the Byzantium. (5) So, soon after Pandorica/Big Bang, River investigates and realises she needs to go back to 51st century to participate in ''TToA''. (6) She gets herself rearrested shortly after her break-out in 2. (The guards think she's only been on the run for a few days.) (7) She kicks off ''TToA'' by arranging for the Doctor to rescue her as she jumps out of the star-liner. (8) After ''FaS'' River breaks out of prison again. (Obviously she needs to be gone by the time she's rearrested in 3.) | ||
*[[5145]] is not in the [[51st century]], it is in the 52nd. | *[[5145]] is not in the [[51st century]], it is in the 52nd. | ||
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:::::Also, the officer might not even have gone anywhere. He may have been programmed to think he had been away for a week; maybe he was lying deactivated behind a tree or something. | :::::Also, the officer might not even have gone anywhere. He may have been programmed to think he had been away for a week; maybe he was lying deactivated behind a tree or something. | ||
::::: Remember, only 50 soldiers volunteered to help the Doctor (and it seems all volunteers were Autons). This would imply that only a portion of the army were Autons. Also note, that the general (who appeared in Amy's book and was probably an Auton) didn't volunteer - implying the possibility that he believed his disguise so well that he didn't do something that would have been truly out of character for a Roman general. | |||
*How is a Roman Gladius able to penetrate a Cyberman's armour when 21st century firearms cannot? | *How is a Roman Gladius able to penetrate a Cyberman's armour when 21st century firearms cannot? | ||
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:::It was not Roman but Auton in nature, so it had greater strength, just as shown in ''[[Rose (TV story)|Rose]]''. | :::It was not Roman but Auton in nature, so it had greater strength, just as shown in ''[[Rose (TV story)|Rose]]''. | ||
:: This seems to be a common misunderstanding and the same topic has been raised on stories like ''The Monster of Peladon'' and ''The Seeds of Death''. To clarify: Guns are not "superior to swords" - they're simply ''different'', with different strengths and weaknesses. Yes swords are older, but they're not necessarily inferior. Guns can be used at fairly long range, but swords require close combat. However, swords are heavier and harder and usually capable of providing much more piercing force. | :: This seems to be a common misunderstanding and the same topic has been raised on stories like ''[[The Monster of Peladon (TV story)|The Monster of Peladon]]'' and ''[[The Seeds of Death (TV story)|The Seeds of Death]]''. To clarify: Guns are not "superior to swords" - they're simply ''different'', with different strengths and weaknesses. Yes swords are older technology, but they're not necessarily inferior. Guns can be used at fairly long range, but swords require close combat. However, swords are heavier and harder and usually capable of providing much more piercing force. | ||
*If the trap involving Romans, Pandorica and Stonehenge was built from Amy Pond's memories, why are there pieces of Cyberman scattered around? | *If the trap involving Romans, Pandorica and Stonehenge was built from Amy Pond's memories, why are there pieces of Cyberman scattered around? | ||
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::::The River Song you see in The Pandorica Opens has not yet been to the Byzantium, meaning she has not yet learned to properly pilot the TARDIS. | ::::The River Song you see in The Pandorica Opens has not yet been to the Byzantium, meaning she has not yet learned to properly pilot the TARDIS. | ||
:::::There was no indication that she has not learned yet, but there is substantial evidence that she has. | :::::There was no indication that she has not learned yet, but there is substantial evidence that she has. | ||
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::If you look closely, the part River Song wrote on was rock, but diamond seemed to be crystallising on the rock's surface above and below the graffiti. | ::If you look closely, the part River Song wrote on was rock, but diamond seemed to be crystallising on the rock's surface above and below the graffiti. | ||
* River Song was imprisoned in Stormcage before the crash of the Byzantium (from her point of view). So if she had killed the Doctor this would have had to occur before the Pandorica Opens from her point of view. Meaning she couldn't have killed him, because she was already imprisoned. | * River Song was imprisoned in Stormcage before the crash of the Byzantium (from her point of view). So if she had killed the Doctor this would have had to occur before the Pandorica Opens from her point of view. Meaning she couldn't have killed him, because she was already imprisoned. | ||
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:::''Impossible Astronaut'' and ''Day of the Moon'' take place before "The Pandorica Opens" for River Song. | :::''Impossible Astronaut'' and ''Day of the Moon'' take place before "The Pandorica Opens" for River Song. | ||
:: Since we haven't yet seen all of River's earlier timeline, this assertion is seriously flawed. | |||
*Would nobody in the art world notice that Van Gogh had apparently painted a police box around 50 years before they existed in that form? | *Would nobody in the art world notice that Van Gogh had apparently painted a police box around 50 years before they existed in that form? | ||
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::::Also, the alliance only needed to make the Pandorica impervious to anything of a lower technology than a sonic, as how could the alliance know of vortex manipulators thousands of years before humanity made them? Without a VM, the Doctor wouldn't have been able to give Rory his sonic (don't dis the sonic!), thus freeing the Doctor. I'm sure your mind is spinning like crazy now, but just watch the episode over and over and you'll get it. :P | ::::Also, the alliance only needed to make the Pandorica impervious to anything of a lower technology than a sonic, as how could the alliance know of vortex manipulators thousands of years before humanity made them? Without a VM, the Doctor wouldn't have been able to give Rory his sonic (don't dis the sonic!), thus freeing the Doctor. I'm sure your mind is spinning like crazy now, but just watch the episode over and over and you'll get it. :P | ||
*How come in TV:World War Three the | ::This question should be part of discontinuity discussion for next episode, ''The Big Bang''. | ||
*How come in [[TV]]: ''[[World War Three (TV story)|World War Three]]'' the sonic screwdriver cannot triplicate the flammability of the wine, but it can easily light the torches in the Underhenge? | |||
::You don't have to increase the flammability of a torch to light it - in fact, you really, really wouldn't want to. You just need to provide a spark. | ::You don't have to increase the flammability of a torch to light it - in fact, you really, really wouldn't want to. You just need to provide a spark. | ||
*How can River exist when her father ( | *How can River exist when her father (revealed in a later story) has been erased from time and is a living plastic duplicate? | ||
:: | ::Her father was not an Auton when River was conceived, and the cracks do not undo the effect of the things that they erase. If they did, the Byzantium wouldn't have crashed, there wouldn't be a picture of Rory in Amy's house, Amy wouldn't exist, and so on. Basically, the cracks generate causal inconsistencies. | ||
::: Yeah but River hadn't been conceived until after TBB, so when Rory got erased surely so did any potential for River to exist? | ::: Yeah but River hadn't been conceived until after TBB, so when Rory got erased surely so did any potential for River to exist? | ||
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* This question has been sort-of asked before but I need a proper explanation. The TARDIS explodes in 2010 as has been well documented throughout the series, so why do the stars explode in 102 AD? Before anyone says 'Because it's timey-wimey, and the explosion happened everywhere at once,' this doesn't explain why it didn't happen, say when the Doctor went to see Vincent or at some other point in the series. The Doctor and the other protagonists are in another time from the explosion, which can be said of any episode. It make no sense! Can anyone explain it? | * This question has been sort-of asked before but I need a proper explanation. The TARDIS explodes in 2010 as has been well documented throughout the series, so why do the stars explode in 102 AD? Before anyone says 'Because it's timey-wimey, and the explosion happened everywhere at once,' this doesn't explain why it didn't happen, say when the Doctor went to see Vincent or at some other point in the series. The Doctor and the other protagonists are in another time from the explosion, which can be said of any episode. It make no sense! Can anyone explain it? | ||
::Because, and this is the part that a lot of people don't seem to understand, the universe that we see the Doctor having adventures in both prior to and after this episode ''is'' the rebooted universe. The universe in which all of the stars exploded was an alternate timeline created by the retroactive destruction of the universe caused by the TARDIS explosion; the universe in which the TARDIS is blown up by the Silence is the rebooted universe; as put back together by the Pandorica in the "no stars" timeline. It's a Stable Time Loop. The Doctor will always go to 102 AD and be put in the Pandorica by the Alliance who have traced the origin of the cracks to his TARDIS. This leaves him unable to prevent the Silence from destroying his TARDIS and causes the end of everything. Which in turn leads him to be the one who flies the Pandorica from the old universe into the exploding TARDIS so that the old universe is restored by the Pandorica's restoration field. And then in that universe, the Silence will blow up the TARDIS... well, you get the idea. This is proven by a number of instances; in "Flesh and Stone" we see a Doctor who just rebooted the universe talking to Amy during his "rewind". So the universe in that episode has already been "rebooted" and the Doctor is rewinding through it. The crack is there because it isn't a harbinger of the explosion as it is commonly mistaken for; rather, the cracks are the leftover scar tissue of the explosion, present in the fabric of the rebooted universe until the Doctor allows himself to be erased by the crack in Amy's bedroom. | :: Because, and this is the part that a lot of people don't seem to understand, the universe that we see the Doctor having adventures in both prior to and after this episode ''is'' the rebooted universe. The universe in which all of the stars exploded was an alternate timeline created by the retroactive destruction of the universe caused by the TARDIS explosion; the universe in which the TARDIS is blown up by the Silence is the rebooted universe; as put back together by the Pandorica in the "no stars" timeline. It's a Stable Time Loop. The Doctor will always go to 102 AD and be put in the Pandorica by the Alliance who have traced the origin of the cracks to his TARDIS. This leaves him unable to prevent the Silence from destroying his TARDIS and causes the end of everything. Which in turn leads him to be the one who flies the Pandorica from the old universe into the exploding TARDIS so that the old universe is restored by the Pandorica's restoration field. And then in that universe, the Silence will blow up the TARDIS... well, you get the idea. This is proven by a number of instances; in "Flesh and Stone" we see a Doctor who just rebooted the universe talking to Amy during his "rewind". So the universe in that episode has already been "rebooted" and the Doctor is rewinding through it. The crack is there because it isn't a harbinger of the explosion as it is commonly mistaken for; rather, the cracks are the leftover scar tissue of the explosion, present in the fabric of the rebooted universe until the Doctor allows himself to be erased by the crack in Amy's bedroom. | ||
:: Basically because time is not linear and each point of time throughout history has multiple versions. (E.g. There are versions of history where ''[[The Church at Auvers]]'' has a Krafayis in the window, and versions where it doesn't.) Even if the Doctor had gone to the same time (102 AD) on an earlier adventure, it would have been a ''different version'' of 102 AD. One in which the stars ''didn't'' go supernova; so we wouldn't see that. Furthermore, I believe that because Big Bang 2 saved the universe, it effectively became a fixed point in which both pre-BB2 and post-BB2 universes exist (otherwise The Big Bang '2' wouldn't have happened). In theory, there might be a way to travel between both versions of the universe. | |||
*How can there be life on Earth without stars? After all, our sun is a star and humans would need it to survive. | *How can there be life on Earth without stars? After all, our sun is a star and humans would need it to survive. | ||
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:: This is explained in the next episode. | :: This is explained in the next episode. | ||
*The Cyberman form this episode were from the other dimension so why does it have a skull in it if the other dimension cyber-conversion was just placing a brain in the suit ? | *The Cyberman form this episode were from the other dimension so why does it have a skull in it if the other dimension cyber-conversion was just placing a brain in the suit? | ||
::Maybe the design of the Cybermen was changed to better fit the amount of resources that would be available to them in that particular time period. | ::Maybe the design of the Cybermen was changed to better fit the amount of resources that would be available to them in that particular time period. | ||
[[Category:DW TV discontinuity]] | [[Category:DW TV discontinuity]] | ||
