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Talk:Thirteenth Doctor (The Curse of Fatal Death): Difference between revisions
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::A more pertinent piece of evidence than the script extract (scripts aren't final products, after all) is the ''[[Comic Relief Doctor Who Uncovered]]'' documentary produced for the VHS release. "The Quite Handsome Doctor" is not just a description; it is the actual and only official name of the character played by Richard E Grant. We see Richard Curtis refer to him as such [https://youtu.be/_X0qhLa_txY?t=184 here], and then we see the name superimposed on the screen as Grant is talking, capital letters and all. These have been the characters' official names in publicly available media for two decades. To continue calling him "[[Tenth Doctor (The Curse of Fatal Death)]]" when we know his real, much more unique name is rather like keeping [[War Doctor]] at "[[Ninth Doctor (The Name of the Doctor)]]" forever. As for name-recognition value, surely that's not a primary consideration when naming articles, or else [[Ninth Doctor (Curse of the Shalka]] would be located at [[Shalka Doctor]], the name used approximately 100% of the time people discuss him; and besides, Hartnell's Dr. Who has been brought back and referred to as "the First Doctor" countless times, whereas the COFD incarnations have never had their original names challenged or overridden in this way. Even if there were evidence that a supermajority of readers found the article on the Hugh Grant Doctor by searching "twelfth doctor (the curse of fatal death)" (and I rather suspect they find it by googling "hugh grant doctor who"), that would not be a reason to keep the article there, any more than we should move [[The Doctor (The Brain of Morbius)]] to [[Morbius Doctors]]. Moreover, now that COFD has been validated, we're starting to see references to these incarnations proliferating throughout the wiki; if I were a casual reader and I saw a reference to "the [[Shy Doctor]]" (or "the [[Shy Doctor (The Curse of Fatal Death)|Shy Doctor]]"), capitalised as such, I would immediately understand that this was the name of some distinct, probably comedic incarnation. If I came across a reference to "the [[Eleventh Doctor (The Curse of Fatal Death)|Eleventh Doctor]]", I would immediately think of the character who is actually called the [[Eleventh Doctor]], and be confused as to how this incarnation relates to him. [[User:Gowlbag|Gowlbag]] [[User talk:Gowlbag|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:44, October 5, 2020 (UTC) | ::A more pertinent piece of evidence than the script extract (scripts aren't final products, after all) is the ''[[Comic Relief Doctor Who Uncovered]]'' documentary produced for the VHS release. "The Quite Handsome Doctor" is not just a description; it is the actual and only official name of the character played by Richard E Grant. We see Richard Curtis refer to him as such [https://youtu.be/_X0qhLa_txY?t=184 here], and then we see the name superimposed on the screen as Grant is talking, capital letters and all. These have been the characters' official names in publicly available media for two decades. To continue calling him "[[Tenth Doctor (The Curse of Fatal Death)]]" when we know his real, much more unique name is rather like keeping [[War Doctor]] at "[[Ninth Doctor (The Name of the Doctor)]]" forever. As for name-recognition value, surely that's not a primary consideration when naming articles, or else [[Ninth Doctor (Curse of the Shalka]] would be located at [[Shalka Doctor]], the name used approximately 100% of the time people discuss him; and besides, Hartnell's Dr. Who has been brought back and referred to as "the First Doctor" countless times, whereas the COFD incarnations have never had their original names challenged or overridden in this way. Even if there were evidence that a supermajority of readers found the article on the Hugh Grant Doctor by searching "twelfth doctor (the curse of fatal death)" (and I rather suspect they find it by googling "hugh grant doctor who"), that would not be a reason to keep the article there, any more than we should move [[The Doctor (The Brain of Morbius)]] to [[Morbius Doctors]]. Moreover, now that COFD has been validated, we're starting to see references to these incarnations proliferating throughout the wiki; if I were a casual reader and I saw a reference to "the [[Shy Doctor]]" (or "the [[Shy Doctor (The Curse of Fatal Death)|Shy Doctor]]"), capitalised as such, I would immediately understand that this was the name of some distinct, probably comedic incarnation. If I came across a reference to "the [[Eleventh Doctor (The Curse of Fatal Death)|Eleventh Doctor]]", I would immediately think of the character who is actually called the [[Eleventh Doctor]], and be confused as to how this incarnation relates to him. [[User:Gowlbag|Gowlbag]] [[User talk:Gowlbag|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:44, October 5, 2020 (UTC) | ||
::: I concur. Also, I'd like mention that even if you ''were'' to find a person referring to these Doctors by their incarnation number, it'd most likely be ''because they had previously read the name of the erroneously named wiki page.'' [[User:Epsilon the Eternal|<span style="color:gold"><tt>'''Epsilon'''</tt></span>]] ([[User talk:Epsilon the Eternal|''<tt>Contact me</tt>'']]) 21:03, October 5, 2020 (UTC) | ::: I concur. Also, I'd like mention that even if you ''were'' to find a person referring to these Doctors by their incarnation number, it'd most likely be ''because they had previously read the name of the erroneously named wiki page.'' [[User:Epsilon the Eternal|<span style="color:gold"><tt>'''Epsilon'''</tt></span>]] ([[User talk:Epsilon the Eternal|''<tt>Contact me</tt>'']]) 21:03, October 5, 2020 (UTC) | ||
:: I wouldn't say they're ''erroneous'', Epsilon. As OS25 restated earlier, it is not ''inaccurate'' to call them by the numbered versions, any more than it is inaccurate to call the "main" [[Thirteenth Doctor]] "the Thirteenth Doctor". That's just how counting works. '''Whichever kind of name we go with, we will definitely keep redirects from the other kind.''' (Note that we ''have'' a redirect at [[Shalka Doctor]]!) | |||
:: The comparison to "War Doctor" is an interesting one, but the issue here, really, is that there isn't any kind of evidence that the so-called "Handsome", "Shy" and "Quite Handsome" Doctors ever ''called'' themselves that in-universe, or were ever called that by somebody else in the DWU. | |||
:: These nicknames may be official, but a documentary isn't a valid source at the best of times, and I don't think this one is attempting to say anything about what these Doctors are called ''in the DWU''. | |||
:: (To be clear, that's not a definitive admin-hat-on ''decision''. Just a statement that for the time being I remain unconvinced.) --[[User:Scrooge MacDuck|Scrooge MacDuck]] [[User talk:Scrooge MacDuck|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:02, October 5, 2020 (UTC) | |||
