Tech, emailconfirmed, Administrators
38,198
edits
Talk:John Hurt (in-universe): Difference between revisions
From Tardis Wiki, the free Doctor Who reference
no edit summary
Tag: 2017 source edit |
No edit summary Tag: 2017 source edit |
||
| Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
== Delete == | |||
Bearing in mind that this is an encyclopaedia containing everything and everyone involved in the DWU, I can understand the need to cover this version of John Hurt. This reference enough is evidence that there's a John Hurt in the DWU, therefore we should cover it. If we delete this, then we can surely have a clear out of a few Tom Bakers that we have lying around. | |||
To be clear, that was sarcasm. This page has every right to be here. | |||
[[User:Thefartydoctor|<font color="blue">The</font><font color="silver">Farty</font><font color="red">Doctor</font>]] [[User talk:Thefartydoctor|<small><sup><font color="green">Talk</font></sup></small>]] 21:23, January 29, 2017 (UTC) | |||
:Valid reason. --[[User:Danniesen|DCLM]] [[User talk:Danniesen|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 21:41, January 29, 2017 (UTC) | |||
::Maybe the deletion request you placed should be removed. We don't want admins cleaning it up. [[User:Thefartydoctor|<font color="blue">The</font><font color="silver">Farty</font><font color="red">Doctor</font>]] [[User talk:Thefartydoctor|<small><sup><font color="green">Talk</font></sup></small>]] 00:07, January 30, 2017 (UTC) | |||
:::But hold on. The "Tom Bakers" we have pages for (as far as I'm aware of) actually appeared on a story. From the content of this page, John Hurt was only referenced on ''Greek Bearing Gifts''. I don't see the point of making pages for real-world DW-related actors if they are '''only''' mentioned. I do think this could (and should) be only a BtS note on [[John Hurt]] (as it was before). [[User:OncomingStorm12th|OncomingStorm12th]] [[User talk:OncomingStorm12th|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 00:19, January 30, 2017 (UTC) | |||
By that reasoning, why does [[Akhaten]] have the category "Planets visited by the First Doctor". That was only a line in an episode, whereas we actually witness the Eleventh Doctor's visit so he earns his category... the Doctor could simply have been lying... [[User:Thefartydoctor|<font color="blue">The</font><font color="silver">Farty</font><font color="red">Doctor</font>]] [[User talk:Thefartydoctor|<small><sup><font color="green">Talk</font></sup></small>]] 00:47, January 30, 2017 (UTC) | |||
::Because there is no such thing as a "real world" Akhaten sentient planet-like object. If there was, this would be a different matter. As for the Doctor "could simply have been lying". Yes, he totally could. But that would be speculation, which is not up to us. Anyway, probably an admin could settle this matter down better than us. [[User:OncomingStorm12th|OncomingStorm12th]] [[User talk:OncomingStorm12th|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 00:58, January 30, 2017 (UTC) | |||
:::And to those people who don't completely know how this Wiki works? In the "notes" on ''Greek Bearing Gifts'', we link "John Hurt" (from the DWU) to "John Hurt" (from our universe)? Seems a bit silly. I can see where you're coming from regarding "it's just a reference" but this Wiki is built upon "he said, she said". You do realise that the [[Brothers Grimm]] has been "referenced" numerous times in ''Doctor Who'' throughout its mediums... but they themselves, to my knowledge, have never made an appearance. So why do they have their own page? If you delete this page, it's hypocritical not to delete "[[Brothers Grimm]]" and others like it, built on pure mentions and speculations by characters. Don't misinterpret me, I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm stating that this is an encyclopaedia. References either get their own pages or they don't. There's no "well this can go in, but this can't". [[User:Thefartydoctor|<font color="blue">The</font><font color="silver">Farty</font><font color="red">Doctor</font>]] [[User talk:Thefartydoctor|<small><sup><font color="green">Talk</font></sup></small>]] 01:08, January 30, 2017 (UTC) | |||
:For a little historical context, this was initially covered at [[John Hurt]], before he became involved with the DWU. At that point, it no longer made sense to cover real-world John Hurt (who's now played an incarnation of the Doctor) in a BTS section. So we flipped it around, as we sometimes do. I would recommend that everyone here read [[Talk:John Hurt]]. Reasoning is given there for why we originally made that decision. Since then, it should be noted, I think we've made more pages on the DWU versions of people with real world pages.{{User:SOTO/sig}} 01:15, January 30, 2017 (UTC) | |||
::My final opinion on this is that it's evident that John Hurt exists as two people. We should celebrate our unique coverage of content on this Wiki. When someone gets an in-universe mention, I'd rather be linked up to the DWU version of that person, with a "do you mean" at the top, leading me to the real person and alternate versions. I think it provides true coverage. Furthermore, the categories tell me that the person also exists in real-life. As you said, it's been done before. What makes this difference? Maybe since John Hurt has appeared in ''Doctor Who'', doesn't that compromise the lack of a DWU page? Anyway, I'm all for this page. Feel free to reach whichever decision you feel is best. [[User:Thefartydoctor|<font color="blue">The</font><font color="silver">Farty</font><font color="red">Doctor</font>]] [[User talk:Thefartydoctor|<small><sup><font color="green">Talk</font></sup></small>]] 01:19, January 30, 2017 (UTC) | |||
Let's reach a decision on this, please.{{User:SOTO/sig}} 20:29, March 4, 2017 (UTC) | |||
: Hmm, I don't understand. It seems that [[Talk:John Hurt|the talk at John Hurt]] says this page should be deleted. To quote from CzechOut: "Therefore, to ensure that our use of dab terms remains consistent, fictional references of real people go on the "real world" page. And, as a bonus, this allows us to discuss the fictional appearance using "normal" English, rather than the sorta "fictional, this-all-happened-in-the-past-and-we-know-about-it-because-we-live-at-the-end-of-the-universe English" our in-universe perspective requires us to use." Am I misreading anything? I agree that the situation with actors appearing in DWU is more subtle. After all, the main problem is that DWU can, in principle, give a real person an alternative history. But this reference line does not state anything that would be false of the real Hurt. [[User:Amorkuz|Amorkuz]] [[User talk:Amorkuz|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:01, March 27, 2017 (UTC) | |||
:: With a [https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/Tardis:Disambiguation?diff=prev&oldid=3079522 recent revision] to [[Tardis:Disambiguation#Primary topics]], this is no longer an issue - in-universe versions of real world actors who have appeared in ''[[Doctor Who]]'' receive the dab, as a matter of sheer logic, somebody searching for [[Tom Baker]] would most likely want the actor, not the character. <div style="background-color:#0E234E; border: solid 0.5px gold; display: inline; white-space: nowrap;">[[doctorwho:user:Epsilon the Eternal|<span style="background:#0E234E; color:white"><tt>Epsilon</tt></span>]]''' '''[[doctor who:user talk:Epsilon the Eternal|📯]] [[doctorwho:special:Contributions/Epsilon the Eternal|📂]]</div> 20:00, 6 February 2021 (UTC) | |||
== Potential deletion == | == Potential deletion == | ||
This was discussed at [[Talk:John Hurt]] in 2013, and it was decided this would be dealt with with an "in the DWU" section on the main John Hurt's page. I can see how [[Tom Baker (TV Action!)]] makes sense with a ''very'' loose reading of [[T:DAB OTHER]], but we don't generally split up one topic that's intended to be the same thing in the DWU as in the real world. Usually, we have a BTS on the in-universe page (with rare exceptions like [[Star Trek (franchise)|Star Trek]], where the real-world version is split off into a dabbed page), but a major real-world figure like [[John Hurt]] should not be dabbed. | This was discussed at [[Talk:John Hurt]] in 2013, and it was decided this would be dealt with with an "in the DWU" section on the main John Hurt's page. I can see how [[Tom Baker (TV Action!)]] makes sense with a ''very'' loose reading of [[T:DAB OTHER]], but we don't generally split up one topic that's intended to be the same thing in the DWU as in the real world. Usually, we have a BTS on the in-universe page (with rare exceptions like [[Star Trek (franchise)|Star Trek]], where the real-world version is split off into a dabbed page), but a major real-world figure like [[John Hurt]] should not be dabbed. | ||
