Howling:"You saved me in 2008.": Difference between revisions

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:: Dates are already difficult enough in DW. Don't kill yourself by taking things so literally, when there's a perfectly obvious solution staring you in the face. James Moran did not mean ''The Runaway Bride'' happened in Christmas 2008. It's quite illogical to read it that way. The reason that this is, as you say, something that "everyone overlooks", is because it's really quite . . . '''nothing'''. The simpler explanation is almost always the better one. '''[[User:CzechOut|<span style="background:blue;color:white">Czech</span><span style="background:red;color:white">Out</span>]]''' [[User talk:CzechOut|☎]] | [[Special:Contributions/CzechOut|<font size="+1">✍</font>]] 21:04, March 15, 2010 (UTC)
:: Dates are already difficult enough in DW. Don't kill yourself by taking things so literally, when there's a perfectly obvious solution staring you in the face. James Moran did not mean ''The Runaway Bride'' happened in Christmas 2008. It's quite illogical to read it that way. The reason that this is, as you say, something that "everyone overlooks", is because it's really quite . . . '''nothing'''. The simpler explanation is almost always the better one. '''[[User:CzechOut|<span style="background:blue;color:white">Czech</span><span style="background:red;color:white">Out</span>]]''' [[User talk:CzechOut|☎]] | [[Special:Contributions/CzechOut|<font size="+1">✍</font>]] 21:04, March 15, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, and The Waters of Mars said the The Stolen Earth/Journey's End happened in 2008... if you combine that with the 2008 reference in The Fires of Pompiie, it looks as if the writers intended for series 4 to take place in 2008 and completely forgot how it should be in 2009 for continuity's sake. Oh, I'm confused. Someone shoot me. :( [[User:Delton Menace|Delton Menace]] 21:42, March 15, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, and The Waters of Mars said the The Stolen Earth/Journey's End happened in 2008... if you combine that with the 2008 reference in The Fires of Pompiie, it looks as if the writers intended for series 4 to take place in 2008 and completely forgot how it should be in 2009 for continuity's sake. Oh, I'm confused. Someone shoot me. :( [[User:Delton Menace|Delton Menace]] 21:42, March 15, 2010 (UTC)
::Well, again, ''be fair''. WOM doesn't "say" 2008 in any dialogue. Some graphics that were on the screen for ''less than a second'', written by a trainee script editor and not overseen by RTD, said that. And these same graphics were ''littered'' with errors ranging from plain grammatical and spelling errors, to claiming that Susie's crew were the same as the crew on [[Bowie Base One]]. So the WOM 2008 reference is a plain, old ''mistake'' — not authorial intent. There is a clear difference between an obvious production gaffe and a continuity contradiction. I'm surprised you're hung up over this frankly very minor stuff, and not completely driven '''crazy''' by the ''real'' continuity nightmares caused by ''The Waters of Mars'' with respect to ''[[The Moonbase]]'', ''[[The Wheel in Space]]'' and ''[[Seeds of Death]]''. WOM drove a big, ol' RTD-shaped hole right through the heart of the Troughton era.
::Well, again, ''be fair''. WOM doesn't "say" 2008 in any dialogue. Some graphics that were on the screen for ''less than a second'', written by a trainee script editor and not overseen by RTD, said that. And these same graphics were ''littered'' with errors ranging from plain grammatical and spelling errors, to claiming that Susie's crew were the same as the crew on [[Bowie Base One]]. So the WOM 2008 reference is a plain, old ''mistake'' — not authorial intent. There is a clear difference between an obvious production gaffe and a continuity contradiction. I'm surprised you're hung up over this frankly very minor stuff, and not completely driven '''crazy''' by the ''real'' continuity nightmares caused by ''The Waters of Mars'' with respect to ''[[The Moonbase]]'', ''[[The Wheel in Space]]'' and ''[[Seeds of Death]]''. WOM drove a big, ol' RTD-shaped hole right through the heart of the Troughton era.


::But the broader point is that '''this is ''Doctor Who'', not ''Star Trek'' or ''Star Wars'''''. Dates simply aren't crucial to one's enjoyment of the show, on most occasions. As both Moffat and Cornell have said, the dude's a time traveller. Continuity errors are generally impossible, because time is fluid, wibbly-wobbly, and timey-wimey. You will only drive yourself ''crazy'' by spending so much energy trying to find precise chronological alignment in this show. People smarter than both you or I have been trying for 50 years, and it only gets more difficult the more episodes that are filmed. The only thing you can kinda hope for is that the basic narrative from the '''Doctor's''' perspective makes sense. His own relative timeline is what's key, and violations in that probably should be noted, if they're major enough. But as for the progression of time in the larger Doctor Who universe? Nah, that's just not possible to follow. An objective view of the "chronology of the Whoniverse" is extraordinary elusive because "people assume that there's a strict progression from cause to effect", when the show has definitively established that there isn't. You will enjoy the show so much more if you — to reverse a sports metaphor — follow the man, not the ball. Another way of looking at it is to assume that the writers have done their homework, they're making a good-faith effort, but production realities (like trainee script editors and the occasiional mistake by the graphics department) are occasionally present. You can spend your time here buried in writing theories in the discontinuity sections, or you can write the substantive, ''factual'' parts of articles. For me, the choice between those two things is a no-brainer. '''[[User:CzechOut|<span style="background:blue;color:white">Czech</span><span style="background:red;color:white">Out</span>]]''' [[User talk:CzechOut|☎]] | [[Special:Contributions/CzechOut|<font size="+1">✍</font>]] 06:18, March 16, 2010 (UTC)
::But the broader point is that '''this is ''Doctor Who'', not ''Star Trek'' or ''Star Wars'''''. Dates simply aren't crucial to one's enjoyment of the show, on most occasions. As both Moffat and Cornell have said, the dude's a time traveller. Continuity errors are generally impossible, because time is fluid, wibbly-wobbly, and timey-wimey. You will only drive yourself ''crazy'' by spending so much energy trying to find precise chronological alignment in this show. People smarter than both you or I have been trying for 50 years, and it only gets more difficult the more episodes that are filmed. The only thing you can kinda hope for is that the basic narrative from the '''Doctor's''' perspective makes sense. His own relative timeline is what's key, and violations in that probably should be noted, if they're major enough. But as for the progression of time in the larger Doctor Who universe? Nah, that's just not possible to follow. An objective view of the "chronology of the Whoniverse" is extraordinary elusive because "people assume that there's a strict progression from cause to effect", when the show has definitively established that there isn't. You will enjoy the show so much more if you — to reverse a sports metaphor —�follow the man, not the ball. Another way of looking at it is to assume that the writers have done their homework, they're making a good-faith effort, but production realities (like trainee script editors and the occasiional mistake by the graphics department) are occasionally present. You can spend your time here buried in writing theories in the discontinuity sections, or you can write the substantive, ''factual'' parts of articles. For me, the choice between those two things is a no-brainer. '''[[User:CzechOut|<span style="background:blue;color:white">Czech</span><span style="background:red;color:white">Out</span>]]''' [[User talk:CzechOut|☎]] | [[Special:Contributions/CzechOut|<font size="+1">✍</font>]] 06:18, March 16, 2010 (UTC)
You can't use the "wibbly-wobbly" excuse on the Journey's End/Planet of the Dead dating contradictions. We know Planet of the Dead is set after The Stolen Earth/Journey's End and the former is in April and the later is in May, and they're both shoved into 2009. Because Planet of the Dead is therefore references a story that it, chronologically, takes place before, how the hell do you explain that? Unless, the TV series retconed the date to the finale being in April and not May because the May date was only refered to in second-calss canon. Planet of the Dead is extremely unstable in the timeline, placing itself before The Stolen Earth/Journey's End, but referncing those events. [[User:Delton Menace|Delton Menace]] 08:39, March 16, 2010 (UTC)
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