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::The fact of the humanoid AND invasion of the Boekind were in multiple Torchwood Episodes from series/season 2. [[Adam]][[Exit Wounds]] and Jack mentions it once or twice in [[TV]] episodes, but can't pin point them right now. Also, the "assumption" that Jack IS the Face of Boe has been acknowledged and verified by Russell T Davies, Julie Gardner, and actor John Barrowman. | ::The fact of the humanoid AND invasion of the Boekind were in multiple Torchwood Episodes from series/season 2. [[Adam]][[Exit Wounds]] and Jack mentions it once or twice in [[TV]] episodes, but can't pin point them right now. Also, the "assumption" that Jack IS the Face of Boe has been acknowledged and verified by Russell T Davies, Julie Gardner, and actor John Barrowman. | ||
:::"Producer Julie Gardner, however, has been more assertive in this regard, most recently stating outright at the 2008 San Diego Comic Con that the Face of Boe is Jack Harkness. Similarly, the Torchwood Declassified featurette from Torchwood Series 2 has John Barrowman, David Tennant and Russell T Davies explictly stating that the Face of Boe is Jack Harkness." | :::"Producer Julie Gardner, however, has been more assertive in this regard, most recently stating outright at the 2008 San Diego Comic Con that the Face of Boe is Jack Harkness. Similarly, the Torchwood Declassified featurette from Torchwood Series 2 has John Barrowman, David Tennant and Russell T Davies explictly stating that the Face of Boe is Jack Harkness." | ||
::Since the writers, producers, and actors have all agreed that Jack is Face of Boe, why can it not be written in the wiki? I personally don't catch the Torchwood Declassified or Dr. Who Declassified airings, being from the US, but it has been quoted multiple times on multiple websites, including this very wiki [[Face of Boe|click on Behind the Scenes]]. where does the information come that the Face of Boe is the FIRST of boekind, like it keeps getting changed to? How could he have been the first and have a mother and father? Jack describes in [[Last of the Time Lords]] that he is called Face of Boe simply by being the first to join the time agency from the Boeshane Peninsula.--[[User:IkeRay|IkeRay]] 17:53, 1 April 2009 (UTC)IkeRay | ::Since the writers, producers, and actors have all agreed that Jack is Face of Boe, why can it not be written in the wiki? I personally don't catch the Torchwood Declassified or Dr. Who Declassified airings, being from the US, but it has been quoted multiple times on multiple websites, including this very wiki [[Face of Boe|click on Behind the Scenes]]. where does the information come that the Face of Boe is the FIRST of boekind, like it keeps getting changed to? How could he have been the first and have a mother and father? Jack describes in [[Last of the Time Lords (TV story)|Last of the Time Lords]] that he is called Face of Boe simply by being the first to join the time agency from the Boeshane Peninsula.--[[User:IkeRay|IkeRay]] 17:53, 1 April 2009 (UTC)IkeRay | ||
:::The inhabitants of the Boeshane Peninsula have never been named or linked to the Boekind, and there's no evidence that they weren't humans. | :::The inhabitants of the Boeshane Peninsula have never been named or linked to the Boekind, and there's no evidence that they weren't humans. | ||
:::In any case, just because some of the producers believe something doesn't mean that all the later producers will agree with and put it in the episodes. There has never been anything in the episodes or the novels or the comics or the audio series or anything canon that Jack is the Face of Boe and that the inhabitants of the Boeshane Peninsula were the Boekind. Until there is, this is just speculations. -<[[User:Azes13|Azes13]] 18:32, 1 April 2009 (UTC) | :::In any case, just because some of the producers believe something doesn't mean that all the later producers will agree with and put it in the episodes. There has never been anything in the episodes or the novels or the comics or the audio series or anything canon that Jack is the Face of Boe and that the inhabitants of the Boeshane Peninsula were the Boekind. Until there is, this is just speculations. -<[[User:Azes13|Azes13]] 18:32, 1 April 2009 (UTC) | ||
::::Wait, I understand that because the producers agreed it doesn't make it true, but you're overlooking a key aspect, Russell T Davies has created the "2" characters. He also adds the lines that have lead to all the hubbub, including adding the line "old friend" to the speech the Face of Boe gives the Doctor and the line at the end of series 3 [[Last of the Time Lords]], "I was called, 'The Face of Boe'". if you want to claim that boekind is not humanoid, where is the proof that boekind is exactly like the Face of Boe? thats like picking a mutated human with 11 fingers and 3 eyes and saying that is typical human. Why can we assume that Face of Boe is the first and last of Boekind, but not assume that Jack's flashbacks (the only visual proof of anything) are of humans and not boekind?--[[User:IkeRay|IkeRay]] 22:45, 1 April 2009 (UTC)IkeRay | ::::Wait, I understand that because the producers agreed it doesn't make it true, but you're overlooking a key aspect, Russell T Davies has created the "2" characters. He also adds the lines that have lead to all the hubbub, including adding the line "old friend" to the speech the Face of Boe gives the Doctor and the line at the end of series 3 [[Last of the Time Lords (TV story)|Last of the Time Lords]], "I was called, 'The Face of Boe'". if you want to claim that boekind is not humanoid, where is the proof that boekind is exactly like the Face of Boe? thats like picking a mutated human with 11 fingers and 3 eyes and saying that is typical human. Why can we assume that Face of Boe is the first and last of Boekind, but not assume that Jack's flashbacks (the only visual proof of anything) are of humans and not boekind?--[[User:IkeRay|IkeRay]] 22:45, 1 April 2009 (UTC)IkeRay | ||
:::::The Face of Boe is the only example of Boekind that is actually stated to being 'Boekind', hence he is the only source of information. | :::::The Face of Boe is the only example of Boekind that is actually stated to being 'Boekind', hence he is the only source of information. | ||
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:::I would hope though that we are all in agreement that he is the last of Boekind at the very least. That said, I would wager that by virtue of him being the first TRUE immortal that I am aware of in the series (not counting entities such as the Old Ones and other Pre-Event things) that it is easy to assume that he is also the first of what I can only assume is in essence at the very least a very very long lived race, if not an immortal race. (I mean I don't even think Jack technically died of Old Age in the more traditional sense...) [[User:Cledwin83|Cledwin83]] <sup>[[User talk:Cledwin83|talk to me]]</sup> 14:40, December 29, 2011 (UTC) | :::I would hope though that we are all in agreement that he is the last of Boekind at the very least. That said, I would wager that by virtue of him being the first TRUE immortal that I am aware of in the series (not counting entities such as the Old Ones and other Pre-Event things) that it is easy to assume that he is also the first of what I can only assume is in essence at the very least a very very long lived race, if not an immortal race. (I mean I don't even think Jack technically died of Old Age in the more traditional sense...) [[User:Cledwin83|Cledwin83]] <sup>[[User talk:Cledwin83|talk to me]]</sup> 14:40, December 29, 2011 (UTC) | ||
::::What? Why the heck would [[Rex Matheson]] ''possibly'' be considered Boekind? He's obviously human, from Earth. This conversation is slipping off the rails. Like Tybort said, it's ''absolutely'' debatable that Jack is Boekind ''at all'', so to extrapolate yet another step is fairly — what's the word for it? — '''''crazy'''''. We have exactly one narrative snippet here. Jack says he grew up on the Boeshane Peninsula. He was handsome. Therefore the Time Agency calls him the "Face of Boe". That doesn't mean he's Boekind. That doesn't mean he becomes the [[Face of Boe]] that features in ''[[Gridlock (TV story)|Gridlock]]''. That means that "Boeshane Peninsula" is sometimes contracted to the word "Boe". That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. That is the only '''''fact''''' which can be gleaned from ''[[Last of the Time Lords]]'', and mention of "Boekind" has never since happened. | ::::What? Why the heck would [[Rex Matheson]] ''possibly'' be considered Boekind? He's obviously human, from Earth. This conversation is slipping off the rails. Like Tybort said, it's ''absolutely'' debatable that Jack is Boekind ''at all'', so to extrapolate yet another step is fairly — what's the word for it? — '''''crazy'''''. We have exactly one narrative snippet here. Jack says he grew up on the Boeshane Peninsula. He was handsome. Therefore the Time Agency calls him the "Face of Boe". That doesn't mean he's Boekind. That doesn't mean he becomes the [[Face of Boe]] that features in ''[[Gridlock (TV story)|Gridlock]]''. That means that "Boeshane Peninsula" is sometimes contracted to the word "Boe". That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. That is the only '''''fact''''' which can be gleaned from ''[[Last of the Time Lords (TV story)|Last of the Time Lords]]'', and mention of "Boekind" has never since happened. | ||
::::We therefore have no narrative proof that Jack is "Boekind". We have no tie between the words "Boekind" and "the Boeshane Peninsula". In the intervening time, we've seen Jack die in a variety of ways, and he ''always'' reverts to a [[John Barrowman]]-shaped near-human. There is absolutely no narrative indication that he is progressing towards a look even vaguely resembling the [[Face of Boe]], nor have we seen any basis for believing that Jack's ''voice'' is mutating into that of the Face of Boe. '''According to in-universe evidence, Jack is not the [[Face of Boe]]. There is merely an amusing coincidence between his nickname as a lad and that of the "last of Boekind". | ::::We therefore have no narrative proof that Jack is "Boekind". We have no tie between the words "Boekind" and "the Boeshane Peninsula". In the intervening time, we've seen Jack die in a variety of ways, and he ''always'' reverts to a [[John Barrowman]]-shaped near-human. There is absolutely no narrative indication that he is progressing towards a look even vaguely resembling the [[Face of Boe]], nor have we seen any basis for believing that Jack's ''voice'' is mutating into that of the Face of Boe. '''According to in-universe evidence, Jack is not the [[Face of Boe]]. There is merely an amusing coincidence between his nickname as a lad and that of the "last of Boekind". | ||
