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Forum:Temporary forums/Inclusion debates speedround: Difference between revisions
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Forum:Temporary forums/Inclusion debates speedround (view source)
Revision as of 20:36, 15 April 2023
, 15 April 2023→Fourth Wall discussion
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OttselSpy25 (talk | contribs) Tag: 2017 source edit |
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*''A New Year's message from the Doctor...'' | *''A New Year's message from the Doctor...'' | ||
Should all be invalid. I can't see how you watch the first and come away thinking it's in the DWU. "It's an award. For acting. [...] Wish me luck. /she leaves/" This isn't a wink at the fourth wall, it's simply disregarding it. The other two aren't meaningfully in character. They feature Whittaker in costume, and that's it. I can't comment on the others. Now can we put to bed the idea that people are objecting to the notion of fourth wall breaks ''in general''? Nobody has done that. This is an imagined opponent. What exists is concerns about the overall procedure here and these ''specific'' stories. And the specific stories people are concerned about vary between editors! [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:21, 15 April 2023 (UTC) | Should all be invalid. I can't see how you watch the first and come away thinking it's in the DWU. "It's an award. For acting. [...] Wish me luck. /she leaves/" This isn't a wink at the fourth wall, it's simply disregarding it. The other two aren't meaningfully in character. They feature Whittaker in costume, and that's it. I can't comment on the others. Now can we put to bed the idea that people are objecting to the notion of fourth wall breaks ''in general''? Nobody has done that. This is an imagined opponent. What exists is concerns about the overall procedure here and these ''specific'' stories. And the specific stories people are concerned about vary between editors! [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:21, 15 April 2023 (UTC) | ||
I think it's fine for you to say that, but you're putting aside that Memes also quite clearly stated that breaking the fourth wall should make something invalid ''by default proceeding a debate.'' So, if a webcast comes out tomorrow with a fourth wall wink, based on this precedent we would call it invalid immediately just for using this '''illegal narrative trick'''. We'd then, presumably, have to wait something like six months just for us to have room to actually give it a ''ceremonious trial''. In my opinion, in cases where a new piece of media comes out which does something frivolous like talk to the audience, ''it is '''your job''' to convince the rest of us that it '''isn't''' DWU''. And it should almost certainly be staked in context, quotes from the writers, DWM articles, etc. Not "Uh oh story did bad thing" | |||
I don't particularly mind these individual episodes being put aside for now. I certainly disagree with your takes about a few of them. But the big important thing here is that the argument that breaking the fourth wall or having ''any audience interaction'' should immediately prelude a story is insulting. And historically making over-reaching rules like this had lead to a holistic interference with countless other topics and genres, from ''Choose-Your-Own-Adventure'' novels to ''Attack of the Graske'' to, again, ''Music of the Spheres''. If we're banning audience interaction, why do we allow fiction related to ''Time Fracture''? | |||
Again, I think this comes down to personal definition. If you're Russel T Davies, you think the DWU version of London is like an alternate universe with an alternate history. But to the writers of many other eras, the "present day London" of the DWU was the same as our world. This is why so many stories went out of their way to be set on alien planets or the future by a decade or two. | |||
So, as an example of something that would clearly be hit by a vaguely formed, codified rule like this, any segment in ''Doctor Who Magazine'' where the Doctor is writing about his travels and addresses the readers would be ''instantly'' defined as "taking place in the real world, and not the world of the Doctor" when that was absolutely not the authorial intent. Even saying there is a distinction in every era is blatant speculation. I just don't agree with it as a foundational rule. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 20:36, 15 April 2023 (UTC) | |||
== ''TARDIS Yule Logs'' == | == ''TARDIS Yule Logs'' == | ||
