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Forum:Temporary forums/Inclusion debates speedround: Difference between revisions
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Forum:Temporary forums/Inclusion debates speedround (view source)
Revision as of 18:08, 22 April 2023
, 22 April 2023→Conclusion
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=== Part 3: ''Dermot and the Doctor'' === | === Part 3: ''Dermot and the Doctor'' === | ||
This one flows very naturally from everything discussed above. There is only one factual error in the OP: [[User:OttselSpy25]] claims that "the general belief is that Czech made a new response [in [[Special:Forum]]] stating that because the segment featured real-world actors and was a skit at a real-world awards show, it isn't fiction" but that "this has since been lost". Actually, the post was on [[Talk:The Ultimate Guide (2013 documentary)]], ironically being cited for evidence that we shouldn't call ''[[The History of the | This one flows very naturally from everything discussed above. There is only one factual error in the OP: [[User:OttselSpy25]] claims that "the general belief is that Czech made a new response [in [[Special:Forum]]] stating that because the segment featured real-world actors and was a skit at a real-world awards show, it isn't fiction" but that "this has since been lost". Actually, the post was on [[Talk:The Ultimate Guide (2013 documentary)]], ironically being cited for evidence that we shouldn't call ''[[The History of the Doctor (TV story)|The History of the Doctor]]'' valid — which we do now, and have done for some time. In the same breath Czech also cites ''[[Tales from the TARDIS (comic series)|Tales from the TARDIS]]'' and ''[[The Trial of Doctor Who (short story)|The Trial of Doctor Who]]'', both things which have since been redeemed as valid sources, as examples of things that are held to be invalid for the same reason. That should make quite a lot of alarm bells ring about ''Demot…''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> invalidity reflecting a wildly outdated ethos of validity. | ||
Says Czech: | Says Czech: | ||
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With regards to the "is the Doctor treated as a meta-character", this passes with flying colours. Not a single person in this story shows any sign of knowing about ''[[Doctor Who]]''. Not that it would be a dealbreaker ''necessarily'', but the fact is that the script goes ''out of its way'' to show us otherwise. Multiple people see the TARDIS and fail to relate this to any über-notorious pop culture imagery they might have seen around; no, they're just confused at the incongruous police box, just like any celebrity-playing-themselves in any mainline ''Doctor Who'' story. | With regards to the "is the Doctor treated as a meta-character", this passes with flying colours. Not a single person in this story shows any sign of knowing about ''[[Doctor Who]]''. Not that it would be a dealbreaker ''necessarily'', but the fact is that the script goes ''out of its way'' to show us otherwise. Multiple people see the TARDIS and fail to relate this to any über-notorious pop culture imagery they might have seen around; no, they're just confused at the incongruous police box, just like any celebrity-playing-themselves in any mainline ''Doctor Who'' story. | ||
{{quote|What's that ''box'' doing in the studio? I'm trying to present the news!|Graham Norton (in-universe){{!}}Graham Norton}} | {{quote|What's that ''box'' doing in the studio? I'm trying to present the news!|[[Graham Norton (in-universe){{!}}Graham Norton]]}} | ||
This pointedly ''isn't'' quite the Graham Norton who's had David Tennant and Matt Smith on his talk show. ''He'd'' recognise the TARDIS in a heartbeat and go "what's this TARDIS prop doing here, this isn't the ''Doctor Who'' panel". But no, they go the "box" route. | This pointedly ''isn't'' quite the Graham Norton who's had David Tennant and Matt Smith on his talk show. ''He'd'' recognise the TARDIS in a heartbeat and go "what's this TARDIS prop doing here, this isn't the ''Doctor Who'' panel". But no, they go the "box" route. | ||
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Likewise the [[Eleventh Doctor]] is given an actual reason to care about getting [[Dermot O'Leary]] to the Awards Show on time; he's not just doing it because he's a BBC character and TV personalities gotta stick together, or anything like that. No: it's a "gotta preserver history" thing. | Likewise the [[Eleventh Doctor]] is given an actual reason to care about getting [[Dermot O'Leary]] to the Awards Show on time; he's not just doing it because he's a BBC character and TV personalities gotta stick together, or anything like that. No: it's a "gotta preserver history" thing. | ||
{{quote|The 26th of January, 2011. It's a temporal tipping point. Millions of people going to be making vital, important decisions. And if they make just one, tiny mistake the entire universe will be destroyed.|Eleventh Doctor{{!}}Dr Who}} | {{quote|The 26th of January, 2011. It's a temporal tipping point. Millions of people going to be making vital, important decisions. And if they make just one, tiny mistake the entire universe will be destroyed.|[[Eleventh Doctor{{!}}Dr Who]]}} | ||
This isn't a meta thing, and this isn't indistinguishable from the real-world awards show. What's left — is it a spoof? No it isn't. It's a ''bit silly''. Sure. "Invisible handcuffs". But TV stories by Moffat have had [[The Time of the Doctor (TV story)|holographic clothes]] and [[Twice Upon a Time (TV story)|invisible hair]]. This whole affair is pretty tame as far as the Eleventh Doctor's off-air minisode misadventures go: we've seen him [[Bad Night (home video)|trying to save Queen Elizabeth II from being sold in a pet shop after being turned into a gold fish]], we've seen him [[Good Night (home video)|"…concealing a euphonium. Guiltily. Has that even been attempted before?"]] in an adventure that also involved "telling [[Marilyn Monroe|Marilyn]] she'll have to use the biplane". And then there's the opening scenes of ''[[The Impossible Astronaut (TV story)|The Impossible Astronaut]]''. Eleven gets up to ridiculous shenanigans in-between big TV adventures; that's just what it does. Unlike the "Jedward" thing, the stakes here are justified in meaningful DWU terms, and everything flows from there. | This isn't a meta thing, and this isn't indistinguishable from the real-world awards show. What's left — is it a spoof? No it isn't. It's a ''bit silly''. Sure. "Invisible handcuffs". But TV stories by Moffat have had [[The Time of the Doctor (TV story)|holographic clothes]] and [[Twice Upon a Time (TV story)|invisible hair]]. This whole affair is pretty tame as far as the Eleventh Doctor's off-air minisode misadventures go: we've seen him [[Bad Night (home video)|trying to save Queen Elizabeth II from being sold in a pet shop after being turned into a gold fish]], we've seen him [[Good Night (home video)|"…concealing a euphonium. Guiltily. Has that even been attempted before?"]] in an adventure that also involved "telling [[Marilyn Monroe|Marilyn]] she'll have to use the biplane". And then there's the opening scenes of ''[[The Impossible Astronaut (TV story)|The Impossible Astronaut]]''. Eleven gets up to ridiculous shenanigans in-between big TV adventures; that's just what it does. Unlike the "Jedward" thing, the stakes here are justified in meaningful DWU terms, and everything flows from there. | ||
