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Forum:2023 Naming Scheme Reset: Difference between revisions
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{{ | {{archive}}[[Category:Policy changers]]{{Spoiler}} | ||
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== Opening post == | == Opening post == | ||
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:::Not to mention that typing in "Series 1" is quick and easy and you get your result much quicker. If you type "Doctor Who" first, you’re not very likely to get you the results you need, with 100s of other results showing up first. Then you hypothetically add "S", which will also give your 100s of results you’re not looking for. Going further than that you either type "Series", which is a smaller portion of results but still a lot, probably not even the one you’re looking for, or Season, which is a whole lot more results and chances of the one you’re looking for are slim. In short, you will have to type in the full thing you’re looking for in order to have it show up in search, whereas just "Series 1" is still more likely to get you the result you need fast. [[User:Danniesen|Danniesen]] [[User talk:Danniesen|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 09:02, 2 April 2024 (UTC) | :::Not to mention that typing in "Series 1" is quick and easy and you get your result much quicker. If you type "Doctor Who" first, you’re not very likely to get you the results you need, with 100s of other results showing up first. Then you hypothetically add "S", which will also give your 100s of results you’re not looking for. Going further than that you either type "Series", which is a smaller portion of results but still a lot, probably not even the one you’re looking for, or Season, which is a whole lot more results and chances of the one you’re looking for are slim. In short, you will have to type in the full thing you’re looking for in order to have it show up in search, whereas just "Series 1" is still more likely to get you the result you need fast. [[User:Danniesen|Danniesen]] [[User talk:Danniesen|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 09:02, 2 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
Minor only-tangentially-related sidenote: Epsilon's post yesterday got me thinking how we put the show/series in the dab, yet for TV stories we never make clear in the dab which show or series it stems from. For example, ''"The Metaphysical Engine, or What Quill Did (TV story)"'' and ''"End of Days (TV story)"''. Is there any specific reason for this? eg. why don't we have ''"End of Days (Torchwood TV story)"'' Just thought I'd ask, as a little sidenote. • [[User:Fractal|Fractal]] [[User talk:Fractal|<span title="Talk">•</span>]] 10:05, 3 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
:Yeah, see, uh, [[Forum:Story names should be automatically disambiguated]], and [[Forum:Prefix simplification]]. Long story short, afaict is that dab terms like this didn't use to exist at all, but were added to standardize things. However, my ''guess'' is that Czech was already kind of fed up with the different prefixes (even if he didn't make a thread about it for another year) so he did just one dab for each medium. Even if he hadn't at the time, the latter thread would almost certainly have also done something similar. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:11, 3 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
=== Vote table === | === Vote table === | ||
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|[[User:Cousin Ettolrhc|Cousin Ettolrhc]] [[User talk:Cousin Ettolrhc|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 06:55, 2 April 2024 (UTC) | |[[User:Cousin Ettolrhc|Cousin Ettolrhc]] [[User talk:Cousin Ettolrhc|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 06:55, 2 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
|[[User:SilverSunbird|SilverSunbird]] [[User talk:SilverSunbird|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | |[[User:SilverSunbird|SilverSunbird]] [[User talk:SilverSunbird|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | ||
| | |[[User:66 Seconds|66 Seconds]] [[User talk:66 Seconds|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | ||
|[[User:WarDocFan12|WarDocFan12]] [[User talk:WarDocFan12|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:12, 8 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
|[[User:Crimson|Crimson]] [[User talk:Crimson|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | |||
|[[User:CodeAndGin|<span style="color:green" title="CodeAndGin">CodeAndGin</span>]][[User_talk:CodeAndGin|<span title="Talk to me">🗨</span>]] | |||
|[[User:Warrior2852|Warrior2852]] [[User talk:Warrior2852|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | |||
|[[User:Scrooge MacDuck|Scrooge MacDuck]] [[User talk:Scrooge MacDuck|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | |||
}} | }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
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|Series 5 (Doctor Who 2010) | |Series 5 (Doctor Who 2010) | ||
|Season 5 (Doctor Who 2030) | |Season 5 (Doctor Who 2030) | ||
|{{PS}} | |{{PS | ||
|[[User:OMEGATRON|OMEGATRON]] [[User talk:OMEGATRON|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | |||
|[[User:Dmitriy Volfson|Dmitriy Volfson]] [[User talk:Dmitriy Volfson|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | |||
}} | |||
|- | |- | ||
!3 | !3 | ||
|Run span abbreviated | |Run span abbreviated | ||
|Season 5 (Doctor Who 1963-89) | |Season 5 (Doctor Who 1963-89) | ||
|Series 5 (Doctor Who 2005- | |Series 5 (Doctor Who 2005-22) | ||
|Season 5 (Doctor Who 2023- | |Season 5 (Doctor Who 2023-) | ||
|{{PS | |{{PS | ||
|[[User:WarDocFan12|WarDocFan12]] [[User talk:WarDocFan12|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | |[[User:WarDocFan12|WarDocFan12]] [[User talk:WarDocFan12|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | ||
| Line 544: | Line 556: | ||
|[[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|☎]] | |[[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|☎]] | ||
|• [[User:Fractal|Fractal]] [[User talk:Fractal|<span title="Talk">•</span>]] | |• [[User:Fractal|Fractal]] [[User talk:Fractal|<span title="Talk">•</span>]] | ||
|[[User:OMEGATRON|OMEGATRON]] [[User talk:OMEGATRON|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | |||
|[[User:Dmitriy Volfson|Dmitriy Volfson]] [[User talk:Dmitriy Volfson|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | |||
|[[User:Crimson|Crimson]] [[User talk:Crimson|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | |||
}} | }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
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|Run span full | |Run span full | ||
|Season 5 (Doctor Who 1963-1989) | |Season 5 (Doctor Who 1963-1989) | ||
|Series 5 (Doctor Who 2005- | |Series 5 (Doctor Who 2005-2022) | ||
|Season 5 (Doctor Who 2023-) | |Season 5 (Doctor Who 2023-) | ||
|{{PS | |{{PS | ||
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|[[User:Danochy|Danochy]] [[User talk:Danochy|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | |[[User:Danochy|Danochy]] [[User talk:Danochy|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | ||
|[[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|☎]] | |[[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|☎]] | ||
|• [[User:Fractal|Fractal]] [[User talk:Fractal|<span title="Talk">•</span>]] | |• [[User:Fractal|Fractal]] [[User talk:Fractal|<span title="Talk">•</span>]] | ||
|[[User:OMEGATRON|OMEGATRON]] [[User talk:OMEGATRON|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | |||
|[[User:Dmitriy Volfson|Dmitriy Volfson]] [[User talk:Dmitriy Volfson|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | |||
}} | }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
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|Run span present | |Run span present | ||
|Season 5 (Doctor Who 1963-1989) | |Season 5 (Doctor Who 1963-1989) | ||
|Series 5 (Doctor Who 2005- | |Series 5 (Doctor Who 2005-2022) | ||
|Season 5 (Doctor Who 2023-present) | |Season 5 (Doctor Who 2023-present) | ||
|{{PS | |{{PS | ||
|[[User:WarDocFan12|WarDocFan12]] [[User talk:WarDocFan12|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | |[[User:WarDocFan12|WarDocFan12]] [[User talk:WarDocFan12|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | ||
|[[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|☎]] | |[[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|☎]] | ||
|[[User:Danniesen|Danniesen]] [[User talk:Danniesen|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 10:45, 3 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
|{{User:Aquanafrahudy/Sig}} | |||
|[[User:OMEGATRON|OMEGATRON]] [[User talk:OMEGATRON|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | |||
|[[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | |||
|[[User:Dmitriy Volfson|Dmitriy Volfson]] [[User talk:Dmitriy Volfson|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | |||
|[[User:Danochy|Danochy]] [[User talk:Danochy|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | |||
}} | }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
| Line 588: | Line 609: | ||
|{{PS | |{{PS | ||
|[[User:WarDocFan12|WarDocFan12]] [[User talk:WarDocFan12|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | |[[User:WarDocFan12|WarDocFan12]] [[User talk:WarDocFan12|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | ||
|[[User:Crimson|Crimson]] [[User talk:Crimson|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | |||
}} | }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
| Line 610: | Line 632: | ||
|Run span abbreviated 2 | |Run span abbreviated 2 | ||
|Season 5 (Doctor Who 1963-89) | |Season 5 (Doctor Who 1963-89) | ||
|Series 5 (Doctor Who 2005- | |Series 5 (Doctor Who 2005-22) | ||
|Season 5 (Doctor Who 2023) | |Season 5 (Doctor Who 2023) | ||
|{{PS | |{{PS | ||
|{{#replace:{{User:SOTO/sig}}|<br>|}} (my compromise option) | |{{#replace:{{User:SOTO/sig}}|<br>|}} (my compromise option) | ||
|[[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | |[[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | ||
|[[User:Crimson|Crimson]] [[User talk:Crimson|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | |||
}} | }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
| Line 620: | Line 643: | ||
|Run span abbreviated 3 | |Run span abbreviated 3 | ||
|Season 5 (Doctor Who 1963-89) | |Season 5 (Doctor Who 1963-89) | ||
|Series 5 (Doctor Who 2005- | |Series 5 (Doctor Who 2005-22) | ||
|Season 5 (Doctor Who 2023-present) | |Season 5 (Doctor Who 2023-present) | ||
|{{PS | |{{PS | ||
|[[User:WarDocFan12|WarDocFan12]] [[User talk:WarDocFan12|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | |[[User:WarDocFan12|WarDocFan12]] [[User talk:WarDocFan12|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | ||
|[[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|☎]] | |[[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|☎]] | ||
|[[User:OMEGATRON|OMEGATRON]] [[User talk:OMEGATRON|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | |||
|[[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | |||
|[[User:Crimson|Crimson]] [[User talk:Crimson|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | |||
|[[User:Danochy|Danochy]] [[User talk:Danochy|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] | |||
}} | }} | ||
|- | |- | ||
| Line 662: | Line 689: | ||
::Okay I have just added "prime" versions which say (Doctor Who 2023-present) instead of just dash. Thank you everyone for voting. [[User:WarDocFan12|WarDocFan12]] [[User talk:WarDocFan12|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 13:43, 2 April 2024 (UTC) | ::Okay I have just added "prime" versions which say (Doctor Who 2023-present) instead of just dash. Thank you everyone for voting. [[User:WarDocFan12|WarDocFan12]] [[User talk:WarDocFan12|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 13:43, 2 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
:::Hang on, what's all this 2005-202''3''' business? 2005-2022, ought to be, surely. That's what we'd been discussing, but it doesn't appear in the table… --[[User:Scrooge MacDuck|Scrooge MacDuck]] [[User talk:Scrooge MacDuck|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:05, 8 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::Feel free to fix any typos you spot. [[User:WarDocFan12|WarDocFan12]] [[User talk:WarDocFan12|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:12, 8 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
:: Well I would, but now voting has begun, I'm concerned that some people might have voted for 2005-202''3'' deliberately (for whatever reason) and wouldn't be happy about their vote being counted towards 2005-202''2'' retroactively… Very annoying. --[[User:Scrooge MacDuck|Scrooge MacDuck]] [[User talk:Scrooge MacDuck|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 11:08, 9 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::Felt the same way about 2023-, wanted to change it because I thought it an oversight, but we can’t have that. [[User:Danniesen|Danniesen]] [[User talk:Danniesen|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 17:49, 9 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
I'm not going to put an actual vote for it, because my enjoyment of it is totally unserious, but I want to make it known that I love the "Count them up" option purely for the chaos - [[User:CodeAndGin|<span style="color:green" title="CodeAndGin">CodeAndGin</span>]] | [[User_talk:CodeAndGin|<span title="Talk to me">🗨</span>]] | 00:13, 11 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
Just going to point [https://tardis.wiki/w/index.php?title=Forum:General_Discussion_of_the_Fork&t=20240419211948#Disney+_and_Fandom/Fork to this forum post], and then point out there are just three weeks until the new season begins airing. • [[User:Fractal|Fractal]] [[User talk:Fractal|<span title="Talk">•</span>]] 21:23, 19 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
I voted a while ago, but I wanted to suggest that regardless of the outcome of the vote, we should keep the "Series 14" etc. titles as redirects to make it easy for people to find the articles. After all, sites such as Wikipedia still call the upcoming season by that name. [[User:SilverSunbird|SilverSunbird]] [[User talk:SilverSunbird|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 01:56, 20 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
: At this stage I'd be in favour of an admin just making an executive decision for now and we change it again later. Searching for things on Google like "doctor who 2024 season" or "doctor who series one 2024", or even just "doctor who 2024" doesn't even bring up the old wiki so there's a lot of traffic that's theoretically missing. I think it's worth noting that IMDb now have a new Doctor Who (2023-) listing which starts at ''The Star Beast'', so that's one popular site that's made a decision. [[User:Guyus24|Guyus24]] [[User talk:Guyus24|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 02:10, 20 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
::I do think we need a ruling, yes. We have a decent spate of voting here, a ruling based on these votes, taking into account practicalities, is probably necessary here. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 02:26, 20 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
Answer to SilverSunbird: Yes, that’s most likely gonna be the case. We also keep redirects "Season 27" etc. for "Series 1" onwards. A difficulty we might reach on this is how do we keep the "Season" redirect going, while future proofing so we don’t potentially run into another issue? [[User:Danniesen|Danniesen]] [[User talk:Danniesen|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 09:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
To answer Guyus and Najawin: While yes, I do believe we’re reaching a conclusion here, I think we can afford to wait a little bit longer. The most recent votes have only come along the past week, so I believe that there's still time that the vote could potentially be swayed. We still have 3 weeks until the new series is broadcast. A lot can happen in that time. [[User:Danniesen|Danniesen]] [[User talk:Danniesen|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 09:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
:A lot of googling could happen in that time too. People seeing Dr Who being advertised might start looking into the show, and Wikis in particular. — [[User:Fractal|Fractal]] [[User talk:Fractal|<span title="Talk">•</span>]] 19:57, 20 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
== Conclusion == | |||
<div class="tech"> | |||
With the new series rapidly approaching, it is definitely time to get this closed. While every proposal has their issues, we do need something. Based on the discussion and the votes table, it is pretty clear that a dab that includes the start year or start and end year of the run the series is part of is preferable. Of these, option 1, "Run year", is most popular, and, of the options voted for, most inline with [[T:MAGS]] which is the most relevant existing precedent. It also sidesteps the discussion of whether the TV movie is part of the 1963 run and whether the 2023 Specials are part of the 2005 run. As such, this is what we will go with. To make this completely clear, here are some examples: | |||
* [[Season 1]] --> [[Season 1 (Doctor Who 1963)]] | |||
* [[Season 5]] --> [[Season 5 (Doctor Who 1963)]] | |||
* [[Series 1 (Doctor Who)]] --> [[Series 1 (Doctor Who 2005)]] | |||
* [[Series 5 (Doctor Who)]] --> [[Series 5 (Doctor Who 2005)]] | |||
* [[Series 14 (Doctor Who)]] --> [[Season 1 (Doctor Who 2023)]] | |||
Throughout this whole discussion, one of my primary concerns has been that what we decide should be applicable to everything, not just ''Doctor Who''. In this sense, the inclusion of the year is only necessary when it is required for disambiguation. For example, as there is only one run of ''[[Torchwood (series)|Torchwood]]'' (e.g. there's never been a series-numbering reset), [[Series 1 (Torchwood)]] should '''not''' become [[Series 1 (Torchwood 2006)]]. | |||
The addition of the year to dabs now means that "Season" and "Series" are no longer ''absolutely'' necessary for disambiguation, though those naming schemes will remain. As such, redirects should be created from one to the other. For example: | |||
* [[Series 1 (Doctor Who 1963)]] should redirect to [[Season 1 (Doctor Who 1963)]] | |||
* [[Season 1 (Doctor Who 2005)]] should redirect to [[Series 1 (Doctor Who 2005)]] | |||
* [[Series 1 (Doctor Who 2023)]] should redirect to [[Season 1 (Doctor Who 2023)]] | |||
For future precedent, whether "Season" or "Series" is used in the primary page title depends on what is primarily used in marketing, streaming titles and home media releases. | |||
For now, all current page names should also remain as redirects. In the future, we may wish to revisit this, along with potential issues around redirects like [[Season 30]] pointing to [[Series 4 (Doctor Who 2005)]]. | |||
I understand JDPManjoume's argument for page names like "Doctor Who Season 1 (1963-89)". However, I agree with Najawin that the past arguments against that still hold. This may be worth revisiting once we have a better search system in place. | |||
I'm now going to start moving these pages and then creating the "Series"/"Season" redirects. If anyone reads this soon after it is posted, feel free to help out. Then, starting tomorrow, I'm going to start changing links by bot. | |||
Hopefully this new solution is future-proofed enough to last well into the future, but, if necessary, new threads may be created on this topic at any time. Hopefully we won't need this, though. [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|☎]] 21:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
</div> | |||
