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Talk:The War Chief: Difference between revisions
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If we want to split hairs about ''well, Time Lord monickers only came about later and that's why the War Chief has a different name''. Then it would probably be worth pointing out the Master escaping a clear death scene wouldn't really be a thing until probably Ainley's time. Maybe there's isolated points in the 70s, but as a defining moment? [[User:Tybort|Tybort]] [[User talk:Tybort|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 18:23, 28 April 2024 (UTC) | If we want to split hairs about ''well, Time Lord monickers only came about later and that's why the War Chief has a different name''. Then it would probably be worth pointing out the Master escaping a clear death scene wouldn't really be a thing until probably Ainley's time. Maybe there's isolated points in the 70s, but as a defining moment? [[User:Tybort|Tybort]] [[User talk:Tybort|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 18:23, 28 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
: And it's really weird that [[Talk:The Master/Archive_7#Adding a section for the War Chief in the biography]]'s conclusion appears to stem from this error. Why can I not identify the statement "the Doctor and the Master were the only two Time Lords ever to steal a TARDIS while summarising the events of The War Games in the same breath" anywhere in ''Terror of the Autons'' (originally attributed to ''Doomsday Weapon'')? Not even in the interplanetary war part on pages 25 and 26. [[User:Tybort|Tybort]] [[User talk:Tybort|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 18:37, 28 April 2024 (UTC) | : And it's really weird that [[Talk:The Master/Archive_7#Adding a section for the War Chief in the biography]]'s conclusion appears to stem from this error. Why can I not identify the statement "the Doctor and the Master were the only two Time Lords ever to steal a TARDIS while summarising the events of The War Games in the same breath" anywhere in ''Terror of the Autons'' (originally attributed to ''Doomsday Weapon'')? Not even in the interplanetary war part on pages 25 and 26. [[User:Tybort|Tybort]] [[User talk:Tybort|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 18:37, 28 April 2024 (UTC) | ||
::The "only two" thing was a misattribution of a plot point from ''Doomsday Weapon'' to ''Terror of the Autons'', yes. Thank you for correcting remaining instances of it in the main namespace. | |||
::I do not, on the other hand, follow what your issue with the "the War Chief was killed" thing is. You needn't invoke the stuff about Ainley's miraculous escapes — the addition to Time Lord lore which occurred after ''War Games'' is simple enough: the idea that ''Time Lords regenerate when they are killed''. (As documented at [[First Doctor's renewal]] and [[Second Doctor's change of appearance]], what had happened in the Hartnell-Troughton and Troughton-Pertwee transitions was a little more ambiguous; it took until the Pertwee era for the idea that regeneration might follow violent injury to take root.) The idea, then, in the War Chief=Master accounts, is quite plainly that the Brayshaw War Chief ''regenerated'' after the War Lord had him shot, and then made his escape, having now adopted a new face — presumably Delgado's, but there could be interim incarnations. This is in fact what both ''[[Timewyrm: Exodus (novel)|Timewyrm: Exodus]]'' and ''[[The Legions of Death (game)|The Legions of Death]]'' say happened, all Master lore aside; it is what you would ''expect'' to happen to the War Chief after the camera cuts away from him. The War Chief survived with a new face; of course he did. That's what his kind do. | |||
::Whether the ''Terror of the Autons'' novelisation in particular was ''intended'' to support the Master=War Chief claim is something I've grown more unsure about the more I've investigated the topic; in that it does seem like Hulke was the big proponent of the idea, not Dicks. (This is also [[Dave Rudden]]'s understanding; he refers to War-Chief=Master belief as being "of the House of Hulke".) But it's certainly a valid reading of the text. The key quote is not the "interplanetary wars" business, but the Doctor going "he was luckier than I" when he hears that the Master escaped the Time Lords with his TARDIS still operational. Could be that he's drawing a parallel between his own capture, and a near-capture of the Master in entirely different circumstance, but it's not exactly incongruous with the text to link it to Hulke's accounts, and take it that he's referring to their shared presence at the War Games, from which the Master (newly-regenerated) slipped away, while the Doctor didn't. --[[User:Scrooge MacDuck|Scrooge MacDuck]] [[User talk:Scrooge MacDuck|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:39, 28 April 2024 (UTC) | |||
