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Ive found that this story was apparently an unpublished novel made into an audiobook by BBV (http://www.ozmusicbooks.com/oz-music-books/doctor-who/reference-library/audio-cds-records-and-tapes/bbv/other-bbv-audio-titles). Still looking for further info. --[[User:Revanvolatrelundar|Revan]]\[[User_talk:Revanvolatrelundar|Talk]] 18:46, January 31, 2011 (UTC) | Ive found that this story was apparently an unpublished novel made into an audiobook by BBV (http://www.ozmusicbooks.com/oz-music-books/doctor-who/reference-library/audio-cds-records-and-tapes/bbv/other-bbv-audio-titles). Still looking for further info. --[[User:Revanvolatrelundar|Revan]]\[[User_talk:Revanvolatrelundar|Talk]] 18:46, January 31, 2011 (UTC) | ||
:::Actually, I saw that opinion from TD on your talk page, and I think he probably wasn't writing with the precision that he might've liked, on reflection, to use. | :::Actually, I saw that opinion from TD on your talk page, and I think he probably wasn't writing with the precision that he might've liked, on reflection, to use. I mean, Paul Cornell's a professional writer, but that doesn't mean he hasn't written fan fiction. Tons of professional writers have contributed to charity publications, and we routinely rule these out of bounds. The delimiting line isn't the professionalism of the individuals, but rather the legal ''right'' of publication. What makes the BBC Wales series "canon" isn't that RTD and Moffat have been in charge of it, but rather that [[Lorraine Heggessey]] and [[Jane Tranter]] fought for two hard years to get the rights to broadcast it on [[BBC One]]. Thus, the thing that matters with respect to BBV is exactly what rights were actually held by Bill Baggs. And I'm tellin' you right now, there is ''no'' way he ''ever'' had the rights to the Doctor or the Master. No. Freakin'. Way. The Liz Shaw thing we need to investigate more. The FP thing is probably a matter for a wider and more specific debate. But, happily, we are in agreement on the vast majority of these titles and can begin dispensing them forthwith. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}} | ||
::::CzechOut is correct in his interpretation, when I wrote it I got a little bogged down on the fanfic idea. | ::::CzechOut is correct in his interpretation, when I wrote it I got a little bogged down on the fanfic idea. | ||
::::In this instance in relation to BBV we need to be sure on the rights elements. I'll have to go digging around for my VHS copies, hopefully they'll have some fine print on them with regards to who owns what. | ::::In this instance in relation to BBV we need to be sure on the rights elements. I'll have to go digging around for my VHS copies, hopefully they'll have some fine print on them with regards to who owns what. | ||
::::The Charity Publications are another topic I think we need to revisit / write into the canon policy our stance on them. | ::::The Charity Publications are another topic I think we need to revisit / write into the canon policy our stance on them. | ||
::::As to Liz Shaw, I think due to the weird way the BBC licensed stuff the characters are owned by whoever created them, so BBV I would guess must have licenced it from Robert Holmes' estate? Given that he wrote ''Spearhead from Space''. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] / '''[[User talk:Tangerineduel|talk]]''' 14:28, February 1, 2011 (UTC) | ::::As to Liz Shaw, I think due to the weird way the BBC licensed stuff the characters are owned by whoever created them, so BBV I would guess must have licenced it from Robert Holmes' estate? Given that he wrote ''Spearhead from Space''. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] / '''[[User talk:Tangerineduel|talk]]''' 14:28, February 1, 2011 (UTC) | ||
::::::Yeah, but that never applied when the producers/script editors created the character. | ::::::Yeah, but that never applied when the producers/script editors created the character. The producers/script editors were under contract to the Beeb, and therefore any of their creations were automatically Beeb copyright. Liz was created by Sherwin/Dicks in very early 1969. Dicks then commissioned Holmes and said, "Right, you've got this new Doctor, a scientist named Liz Shaw (well, actually, she was Liz ''Shore'', then) and the Brigadier. Have fun." So he gets the Autons as his copyright, because Dicks didn't specify that, but not Shaw. According to Shannon Sullivan, scripts for ''Spearhead'' were commissioned only on 3 June 69, but John was cast in July and formally contracted on 28 July. I don't actually know when the scripts were delivered, but filming didn't begin until mid-September. Point is, John was probably cast before Holmes had delivered his scripts, which means he didn't devise the character any more than he has a claim to Jo, Sarah Jane, the Master or Romana, other regular characters for whom he wrote the introductory episodes. The only companions that aren't owned wholly by the BBC are the ones that didn't start out as companions. So, the Brig, K9, Nyssa, Benton, Jago, Litefoot. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}} | ||
:::::::Just moving a tad back to the topic, i think we should keep this stuff but as you argue CzechOut, we need to be clear if we are to include it in canon. My view is that if a non official story doesn't directly contradict another story, we should include it as canon. But if some official story does come along and seem to contradict elements of the story then we should discuss whether to remove the story from canon. --[[User:Revanvolatrelundar|Revan]]\[[User_talk:Revanvolatrelundar|Talk]] 19:32, February 1, 2011 (UTC) |