Howling:The Little Girl's True Identity: Difference between revisions
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I finally discovered who the little girl is, and it is actually pretty obvious if you think about it. The little girl has the power to regenerate, but the only timelord left alive (the doc) is a man, so he can't be a little girl. However, if you have played THe Mazes of The Dead, then you will know that Amhy also, apparently has the power to regenerate. Therefore, the little girl is either Amy herself, or more likely, the daughter of Amy and Rory. If it is Amy and Rory's daughter, then because Amy has the power to regenerate, there wouldn't even need to be any interference from the silence or the tardis, or the doctor being the father. [[Special:Contributions/69.251.176.120|69.251.176.120]] 00:35, May 5, 2011 (UTC) | I finally discovered who the little girl is, and it is actually pretty obvious if you think about it. The little girl has the power to regenerate, but the only timelord left alive (the doc) is a man, so he can't be a little girl. However, if you have played THe Mazes of The Dead, then you will know that Amhy also, apparently has the power to regenerate. Therefore, the little girl is either Amy herself, or more likely, the daughter of Amy and Rory. If it is Amy and Rory's daughter, then because Amy has the power to regenerate, there wouldn't even need to be any interference from the silence or the tardis, or the doctor being the father. [[Special:Contributions/69.251.176.120|69.251.176.120]] 00:35, May 5, 2011 (UTC) | ||
:Who says a male Time Lord can't regenerate into a little girl? The 4th Doctor said he could, and there have been other such references in the show. And Moffat definitely knows about those references, since he talked about them after he wrote [The Curse of Fatal Death], a parody where the Doctor _did_ regenerate into a female. --[[Special:Contributions/99.33.26.0|99.33.26.0]] 04:26, May 5, 2011 (UTC) | :Who says a male Time Lord can't regenerate into a little girl? The 4th Doctor said he could, and there have been other such references in the show. And Moffat definitely knows about those references, since he talked about them after he wrote [The Curse of Fatal Death], a parody where the Doctor _did_ regenerate into a female. --[[Special:Contributions/99.33.26.0|99.33.26.0]] 04:26, May 5, 2011 (UTC) | ||
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The little girl kills the Doctor, she doesn't mean to infact I think she had lots of help (not just from the Silence), if you recall the Doctor gesturing. Also the disappearing sounds like an invisible Tardis to me, (possibly piloted by River on the suggestion of the Silence). It's not like she'd tell them anyway because she killed him in the first place. I think the sickness River felt was a reaction to the subliminal messages. So the Doctor dies the first time River Song meets him. Nice symmetry isn't it. "It's alright I know it's you" (he knew all about her, she knew nothing about him). "Rule 1 - The Doctor Lies" , she didn't know she was going to kill him by doing what he said. Likely he dies becuase he knows this will save her life, it sounds very Doctorish, the Silence may have bet on this. "I'm sorry" is to River for what he did, she's obviously very upset seeing it all again now that she understands what's happening and what he did. This may also explain why crackshot River couldn't hit the side of a barnwall when she shot at the girl. | The little girl kills the Doctor, she doesn't mean to infact I think she had lots of help (not just from the Silence), if you recall the Doctor gesturing. Also the disappearing sounds like an invisible Tardis to me, (possibly piloted by River on the suggestion of the Silence). It's not like she'd tell them anyway because she killed him in the first place. I think the sickness River felt was a reaction to the subliminal messages. So the Doctor dies the first time River Song meets him. Nice symmetry isn't it. "It's alright I know it's you" (he knew all about her, she knew nothing about him). "Rule 1 - The Doctor Lies" , she didn't know she was going to kill him by doing what he said. Likely he dies becuase he knows this will save her life, it sounds very Doctorish, the Silence may have bet on this. "I'm sorry" is to River for what he did, she's obviously very upset seeing it all again now that she understands what's happening and what he did. This may also explain why crackshot River couldn't hit the side of a barnwall when she shot at the girl. | ||
So the doctor dies and what happens? it definitely changes the little girl, my bet is the Doctors | So the doctor dies and what happens? it definitely changes the little girl, my bet is the Doctors consciousness transfers to the little girl/River. This is how River knows so much about the Doctor, why she seems like his wife, if you recall she said "could it ever be that simple, the Moff said it's complicated), can write high gallifrayen, can fly the Tardis possibly better than the current Doctor. It's likely this is why she's in Stormhold as well as she's now a very danerous individual, but yes ultimately because of the Doctors death. I expect she may go off the tracks a bit.... you bad girl you. | ||
Now assuming the little girl does hold the doctors | Now assuming the little girl does hold the doctors consciousness, so she is something new, something we've never seen before, but yes defintely human. But is it possible that she could regenerate either becuase the Doctor is onboard or because she was so close when he died in mid-regeneration? [[Special:Contributions/27.32.72.200|27.32.72.200]] 08:36, May 29, 2011 (UTC) | ||
I'm afraid that you're failing to distinguish between "evidence" and "speculation". The above is speculation. It isn't evidence. Other points apart, it would be difficult to find any moment in any episode where it would '''not '''be possible for an invisible TARDIS to be involved, especially if its engines were on silent. [[Special:Contributions/2.96.25.48|2.96.25.48]] 08:50, May 29, 2011 (UTC) | I'm afraid that you're failing to distinguish between "evidence" and "speculation". The above is speculation. It isn't evidence. Other points apart, it would be difficult to find any moment in any episode where it would '''not '''be possible for an invisible TARDIS to be involved, especially if its engines were on silent. [[Special:Contributions/2.96.25.48|2.96.25.48]] 08:50, May 29, 2011 (UTC) | ||
Some comments and questions (answers in short supply): | |||
River, when she's not on unauthorised leave of absence, is in jail in the 52nd century for killing someone. She's not at all likely to be there for killing someone <b>more than 3000 years earlier</b>. | |||
River has been stated to be "100% human", in circumstances where Steven Moffatt is extremely unlikely to have been lying. Not just "human" but "100% human". Human <b>and nothing else</b>. | |||
A spacesuit which may or may not have had someone in it apparently killed the Doctor in 2011. Its visor was undamaged. | |||
Just before it shot him, the Doctor spoke to the spacesuit as to someone he knew. | |||
A similar spacesuit had a little girl in it in 1969 <b>but she escaped from it in that year</b>. Was she put back in it before the incident with the Doctor and how old was she by then? If she lived through the intervening time normally, she'd be in the region of 51. The bullet hole in the visor could have been repaired almost any time in the 40-odd years since 1969. Alternatively, in the girl's timeline, did the incident with the Doctor occur before her escape in 1969? That's possible if she travelled in time and would explain why the visor had no bullet hole. Amy hadn't yet shot at it. | |||
The spacesuit containing the little girl allowed her to phone for help and defaulted to phoning the US President. Whilst talking to the President, the girl spoke of a spaceman coming to eat her. If she wasn't in the spacesuit at the time, how did she phone the President? If she was in the spacesuit at the time, who/what was the spaceman that was coming to eat her? Another spacesuit? Something else? If it was another spacesuit, that suit wouldn't at any time have a bullet hole from Amy's shot. | |||
A second suit is quite possible. The warehouse had parts for another and we don't know how many the Silence had obtained. | |||
In early 1970, the little girl was in New York and was dying, so she regenerated in what seems to be the same way as a Time Lord. It didn't just happen to her, she knew she could do that and seemed to have a fairly good idea what to expect from the process. Even if she were a full Time Lord, not a half-human and not some new kind of being created in imitation of the Time Lords, how did she know? Who told her? Had she seen the process before? [[Special:Contributions/78.146.188.114|78.146.188.114]] 09:47, May 29, 2011 (UTC) | |||
: Sorry if I was unclear, I meant that River was now in Stormhold becuase she became very dangerous as a result of killing the Doctor. If she hadn't killed the Doctor this wouldn't have happened. Yes I still think she's human, but carrying the Doctors consciousness/memories. Yes if that means she's not 100% human I guess my theory is sunk. | |||
:: I don't think that it is possible, that River Song is "carrying the Doctors consciousness/memories", at maximum his memories (similar to Craig in "The Lodger"). If she had his conciousness as a whole beside hers this would be about the same as DoctorDonna. I guess in which way a human body gets hold of a Time Lord mind isn't important. And we know that the Doctor said that a human body is not able to hold the mind of a timelord. Only way this could be possible, but kind of unlikely: The human race has evolved enough in 3000 years to be able to do so.[[Special:Contributions/95.208.116.246|95.208.116.246]] 14:28, May 29, 2011 (UTC) | |||
: Yep I was suggesting the little girl was transported through time from 1969 before the suit was damaged. So 2011 is the first time she meets the Doctor. Interesting point I hadn't considered the second suit... | |||
: For the regeneration, if she had the Doctors memories on board she would know what to expect. Anyway just my current theory attempting to make sense of everything. [[Special:Contributions/27.32.72.200|27.32.72.200]] 11:34, May 29, 2011 (UTC) | |||
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: By the way, it's Stormcage, not Stormhold. [[Special:Contributions/78.146.185.15|78.146.185.15]] 13:57, May 29, 2011 (UTC) | |||
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: The thesis that River is in Stormcage for killing the Doctor is the first one that comes to mind when the Dctor is told of it by Octavian. It's neat, it's provoctive and I think that it's so obvious that Moffat intended to raise it in our minds and let us live with the idea for a while before telling us otherwise. [[User:Boblipton|Boblipton]] 14:06, May 29, 2011 (UTC) | |||
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: One thing to note about the future doctors death. When she was scanning the space suit River asks the doctor if it could move without an occupent. Could it be that she thought at the time that it was the empty suit that killed the doctor rather than the girl. It is also possible that is what happened and the mention of the girl been "eaten" by the suit was to stop the doctor getting suspisous as to why she asked.[[Special:Contributions/82.11.57.232|82.11.57.232]] 14:22, May 29, 2011 (UTC) | |||
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: There might or might not have been a 2nd suit. The Doctor certainly tried on a helmet while the girl was clumping around in a complete suit and yelling for help, so there were NASA parts for more than one. Whether or not there were the alien parts for more, is another matter. The unanswered question from the events of the story relates to the girl calling Nixon and telling him the "spaceman" was coming for her. Either she was already in the suit and the "spaceman" was something else (possibly another suit, possibly not) or she independently has the same ability to hack the phone network that the suit has. That would be a bit of a coincidence, to put it mildly, unless she gave the suit that ability, herself, which just raises more questions. | |||
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: Like Boblipton, I'm suspicious of the hypothesis that the man River is in prison for killing is the Doctor and I'm suspicious of it for exactly the same reasons. [[Special:Contributions/78.146.185.15|78.146.185.15]] 14:25, May 29, 2011 (UTC) | |||
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: The simplest explanation of River asking about the girl being "eaten" by the suit is that River had not, at that point, wondered how the girl could have called Nixon if she wasn't already in the suit. Even the Doctor occasionally misses things, why shouldn't River? | |||
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: For all we yet know, it could have been an empty suit that killed the Doctor, although he spoke to it as if it were a person he knew. [[Special:Contributions/78.146.185.15|78.146.185.15]] 14:41, May 29, 2011 (UTC) | |||
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:Here are my hair-brained ideas about the identity of the little girl/baby (I am presuming they are the same here): As many fans have already speculated, the big reveal will be when Rory exclaims at some point "that's my daughter!" and the Doctor says "No, she's mine" or something to that effect. So did the Doc and Amy actually get up to no good together off-camera? No. Amy was chosen to be a surrogate to breed a time-lord baby to use as some kind of weapon (as mentioned in the trailer for 'Good Man...', valuable DNA) by alien enemies, my guess as some kind of living 'time bomb' (maybe to blow up the TARDIS) OR as an attempt to engineer another TARDIS (to provide the 'living spirit' required, hinted at by the Doctor's Wife and the mysterious 'failed attempt TARDIS' in the Lodger, perhaps revealing the need for a time-lord soul to power a TARDIS or something). Either Amy's proximity to the Doctor was engineered to begin with or merely utilized for convenience (no clue how the DNA was implanted in her). The seeming regeneration of the little girl (if she and the baby are one and the same as is implied) adds evidence to the baby's time-lord DNA. Yet this leaves several possibilities as to the baby's identity and parentage also related to the identity of River Song. The baby is: A) a pure clone a la the Doctor's Daughter (most unlikely), River helped orchestrate B) Amy and the Doctor's, River is the baby/girl OR helped orchestrate C) River and the Doctor's, Amy is literally a surrogate, River orchestrated D) Amy and Rory's, somehow special being conceived by time-space travelling parents (as Amy wondered on), River is the baby/girl OR helped orchestrate the kidnap [[User:DreamSong|DreamSong]] 11:16, May 31, 2011 (UTC) | |||
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