Talk:Adventures in Lockdown

The webcasts

Since this is a prose anthology, I'm going to assume that the webcasts listed are novelisations? Never Forget The Day The 456 Arrived ☎ 19:15, October 16, 2020 (UTC)

Well, short-story-izations. And since many of them were just people reading things, it could just be the text they read. But someone went and linked to the webcasts, etc, even though I explicitly did not link to those when I created the page. I've delinked them now. Najawin ☎ 19:35, October 16, 2020 (UTC)

All but two of the webcasts in this anthology were effectively just narrated short stories. Not sure of the precedent here, but unless they add anything to the original story, I'd wager it's not worth creating new pages when there's not any new information in them. It's worth waiting to see what the actual release holds, of course, before making any decisions. Danochy ☎ 22:47, October 16, 2020 (UTC)

Listen (webcast) is a narrated poem even. I'm sure there's precedent for a novelization literally not adding any content to the TV story, so that seems similar enough?

Far more interesting to me is that, while our Lockdown thread is, uh, no longer with us, this publication seems to circumnavigate both the question of whether these stories were licensed or whether Doctor Who Lockdown contains the Prose stories listed online. Not exactly answering either question, but answering a question similar to each one. Najawin ☎ 22:58, October 16, 2020 (UTC)

Novelisations add new content by virtue of being a completely different medium. If the short story versions are word-for-word the same, there's no point in creating a new page. We don't create new pages when a short story is narrated (Category:Prose stories with audiobook readings), why would we treat it any differently if it occurred in reverse?

Obviously this wouldn't be the case for the short story-isations of Rory's Story and Message from the Doctor as they were not narrated. Danochy ☎ 23:04, October 16, 2020 (UTC)

Audiobooks can add new content, be it pronunciation or tone. It depends on the quality of the narrator. There is, however, a long and storied tradition of considering it the same work as the original book, which isn't inherently the case with novelizations. (Though I note here that this wiki does go against tradition at times such as the decision to treat gameplay as narrative for video games.) Quite honestly I'm not sure how I feel about this issue and would love a broader range of perspectives, I just am not compelled by these arguments. Najawin ☎ 23:12, October 16, 2020 (UTC)

Audiobook readings may add new value, or bring a new interpretation, but they do not add content. The Time of Angels is an adaptation of the original, even if it does not add altogether new information, by virtue of having been changed to suit the medium (entry-level English novelisation). Doctor Who and the Star Beast also counts separately, despite being largely faithful, because they were changed to suit the dramatised audio form. On the other hand, a Short Trips short story given an audio version for Subscriber Short Trips is essentially just an audiobook reading, and a BBC Audio reading even more so. In broad terms, if a Short Trips original audio story was later collected as a short story in a prose anthology, it would no be treated as a separate work, any more than it is the other way around, per T:NPOV.
×   SOTO contribs ×°/↯/•]   💬•| {/-//:   03:41, October 17, 2020 (UTC)

I, of course, strongly disagree over what "content" entails here, but I defer to you on what the actual policy is with regards to this page. Najawin ☎ 04:52, October 17, 2020 (UTC)

The precedent I'd work from relative to covering the short stories separately from the webcasts is Shada-the-WC vs. Shada-the-audio-story. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 08:53, October 17, 2020 (UTC)

Yes, agreed. Same for Real Time (audio story). Just as Shada (audio) is only separate because of the extra scenes not present in the webcast, these short stories would only be separate if they aren't exactly the same as their webcast. Even then, we might want to look to Doomcloud (comic story), The Duellists (comic story), and Neptune (short story) for the precedent of covering editions of stories with very slight differences that may not warrant a separate page. This is all hypothetical, of course, and would be better to discuss when these stories actually release. Danochy ☎ 11:13, October 17, 2020 (UTC)

So now this has been released, has anyone here got a copy? I was talking to someone earlier who said A Message from the Doctor is a prose form of the webcast, while Rory's story is just the script, hence the redlinks I added already. For the remaining four stories I don't know the details just yet. Danochy ☎ 11:11, November 5, 2020 (UTC)

Every story in the anthology is just regular prose, like any other anthology except for Rory’s Story which seems to just be a printed version of the script. There doesn’t appear to be anything new added to any of the pre-existing stories either, so for example A Message From The Doctor is just exactly what Jodie says in the webcast written down. SarahJaneFan ☎ 13:02, November 5, 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for that! I still maintain that there's little use in creating pages which contain the same content as webcasts, word for word. It's essentially the reverse of an audiobook reading, and a completely different scenario to novelisations and Shada (audio story), which have been brought up above. I don't see how we could cover these separately without also allowing the creation of audiobook versions of every novel release, which, in my opinion, this would be pointless and impractical. Danochy ☎ 13:13, November 5, 2020 (UTC)

I actually think there might be value in creating pages for at least some audiobooks — most audiobook readings actually add something (via the intonations/performance), to say nothing of audiobooks of Dalek or Cyberman stories which actually bring in Nick Briggs to properly voice the nonhuman characters, further blurring the line between an audiobook and an audio adaptation.

But, of course, as has been said before, the release of these webcasts as text don't actually add anything; rather, they subtract. I think I can see our way to covering these on a single page. Only issue is, webcast infoboxes don't have a "|reprinted_in=" variable, do they? For rather obvious reasons. What should we do about tha? --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 13:59, November 5, 2020 (UTC)

Wait for the DPL forums to start up and raise the issue then? :> Najawin ☎ 15:01, November 5, 2020 (UTC)

That's fair enough, your point about audiobooks. In regard to infoboxes, the simple solution there seems to be to add such a variable. Alternatively pages could simply have it mentioned in the lead and/or the notes section. Danochy ☎ 23:10, November 5, 2020 (UTC)