Talk:Eve of the War (comic story)

Proposed rename

I'm suggesting this rename because, as far as I can tell, the title Eve of the War has been in use for longer and more prevalently in official sources than Eve of War.The earliest instance of Eve of War (and the only instance prior to this article's creation in 2008) I could find was in 1991's The Terrestrial Index.

Meanwhile, the earliest occurrence of Eve of the War was in Jeremy Bentham's article about TV21 from the Gallifrey fanzine in 1980. Although this was unofficial, it is worth noting that 10 of the 15 Bentham-invented titles became adopted by later reprints to such an extent that they are the titles used by this Wiki. This number rises to 13 of 15 if one takes or adds the word the from Bentham's. The two exceptions (The Menace of the Monstrons and The Rogue Planet) are special cases in that they are stories which got their titles from the reprints in the 1970s Dalek annuals, of which Bentham was unaware. The first official use of Eve of the War was in issue 6 of Doctor Who Classic Comics as part of an editorial accompanying the reprint of the story in that issue (although the contents gives it as The Eve of the War). Frame Count, a list of all The Daleks stories featured in issue 8, soon corroborated Eve of the War as the more correct styling. Eve of the War was also used for 1994's The Dalek Chronicles, which is to date the only single release to reprint all The Daleks stories while giving them individual titles.

Eve of War has undoubtedly achieved greater prominence online in recent years (which I suspect is in large part due to this very Wiki) but Eve of the War has by no means disappeared in reference works covering TV21. The name with the the was used in 2012's The Comic Strip Companion: 1964 – 1979 and in 2017's edition of Vworp Vworp!. I'm likely missing some recent official uses of Eve of War in DWM or somesuch but the very salient (imo) fact remains that Eve of War has never been used in a release actually containing the story whereas Eve of the War has been used twice and in the two most recent reprints. I can understand some reluctance to this proposal as the name has been used on the Wiki for over a decade without objection but it is my belief that we shouldn't be scared to upset the status quo if a more accurate name is found (and I think it has).

What does everyone else think? Borisashton ☎ 21:48, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

I agree. If there are titles that have actually been applied to a story in publications that contained them, it seems obvious to me we should use those, not names used in reference books. And earlier titles are preferred when available.

On which note… while we're reexamining all these names: just why do we call The Penta Ray Factor and The Archives of Phryne by those titles, anyway? Don't The Envoys of Evil and The Quest have seniority? But at least Penta Ray Factor and Archives of Phryne are names that actually have been used in some printings of those stories. Eve of War, though, I think doesn't really have any legs to stand on as more than a redirect. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 22:15, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

Oops, I completely forgot about this discussion. Apologies.

I'm glad you agree! I suggest we go ahead with the move before finishing a review of the other Daleks titles (which I do think is a good idea) as almost every story has a similar but unique background to their titles.

The Penta Ray Factor is an interesting one. It was a Bentham title originally but now outnumbers The Envoys of Evil in publications containing the story 3-1 with The Dalek Tapes, Doctor Who Classic Comics and The Dalek Chronicles all opposing the first official title of The Envoys of Evil as given in Terry Nation's Dalek Annual 1977. The recent reference sources of The Comic Strip Companion: 1964 – 1979 and Vworp Vworp! I mentioned above err towards Bentham's title but instead go for The Pentaray Factor to reflect the most common name of the titular weapon. It is worth noting, however, that the first mention of it in the comic is as "PENTA RAY" rather than "PENTARAY" or "Pentaray" so either is acceptable in my opinion. With all this in mind, I'd personally stick with The Penta Ray Factor because it's the most common name by far and its first official use is only three years adrift from Envoys.

The Quest is more easy to analyse in my mind. Although I think it's alright to bolden it on the page for The Archives of Phryne the simple fact is The Archives of Phryne alone has never been called The Quest in something containing it. In the Dalek annual, The Quest begins with a lone Dalek defeating the Monstrons and the Golden Emperor vowing to rebuild his city and guarding against all enemies from the skies. Everything since has instead included that as part of The Menace of the Monstrons but I think it would inaccurate to rename when this proclamation is as much a part of The Quest as The Archives of Phryne is. Borisashton ☎ 21:24, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I think it's now beyond question that this story belongs primarily at Eve of the War (comic story) (though with Eve of War (comic story) retained as a redirect). I've performed the rename.

Regarding The Penta Ray Factor/The Envoys of Evil — the thing is, we as a Wiki have historically really, really leaned towards the original, earliest titles, to the exclusion of retrospectively-applied replacements. This is among other things why we're still stuck with something like Doctor Who (TV story) even though there's been no shortage of home media calling it The Movie and the like. Penta Ray Factor may have numbers, but The Envoys of Evil has seniority. My heart is torn, but my brain is really leaning towards Envoys here.

The Quest… oh boy. What an odd situation. I cannot help but feel like if The Quest's content is not actually synonmous with either The Archives of Phryne or The Menace of the Monstrons, it, uhm, arguably qualifies for a separate page of its own. The Quest (comic story). I am not happy about it, but it seems like the "virtuous" thing to do. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 00:18, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Regarding The Quest, I think that base is already covered with The Daleks (comic story) seeing as The Quest is explicitly the third part of a three-part story. On Penta Ray Factor versus Envoys, if it's the policy to unconditionally go with the first title (though in this case neither was the title at the time of the original release) then I'll reluctantly accept but if there's any leeway at all I'd favour Penta Ray. It should be noted that a first title policy would also affect several other Daleks stories in (my opinion) negative ways.

Terry Nation's Dalek Annual 1978 reprinted The Rogue Planet and Impasse as a two-part story called The Rogue Planet, labelled as The Rogue Planet (Part 1) and (Part 2) in the table of contents. However, Impasse also got a subtitle, with the story being introduced as The Rogue Planet Part 2... Collision Course!. The other names which would be affected by a first title policy are: Genesis of Evil to either The Beginning or Genesis of Evil!, Power Play to Power Play!, Duel of the Daleks to Dalek Duel, The Amaryll Challenge to Out Into Space!, Plague of Death to The Plague of Death, the freshly-christened Eve of the War to A Fresh Start, and The Road to Conflict to Road to Conflict.

I'm thankful we've done this review but I think now that Eve of the War is this page's new name we've got the best names possible for every story, striking the balance between most-commonly-used title and first official title pretty well. Borisashton ☎ 01:15, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Oh, yes, my mistake regarding The Quest/The Daleks. Somehow I thought we were dealing with distinct Annual printings. But that suggests that The Quest (comic story) should actually redirect to that page, not to The Archives of Phryne, in much the same way that 60s TV episode titles redirect to the full serial's page.

We do have some wiggle room, yes, insofar as none of these are titles from the first release. But in any event, I believe the further titles you mention — The Beginning and so forth — are the chapter titles of The Dalek Tapes, yes? From a Wiki standpoint, they are an irrelevance here: we hold The Dalek Tapes to be its own continuous entity, happening to be very largely made up of "archive material" from the original TV21 stories — not printings of the original stories at all. Genesis of Evil was not reprinted in DWM 33, as The Beginning or otherwise: just Part 1 of The Dalek Tapes, which "happened" to be a retelling of, and contain large amounts of material from, Genesis of Evil. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 02:02, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Good point about The Dalek Tapes. I had forgotten how exactly we had decided to treat it and the decision isn't yet fully reflected on many of the story pages which confused me a little. In that case, we're left with Dalek Duel, A Fresh Start, whatever we're doing with The Rogue Planet and Impasse from the Dalek annual, and possibly Road to Conflict (the Frame Count article from an earlier issue of Doctor Who Classic Comics gave The Road to Conflict).

I'll maintain my position that the titles we have now are the ones we should be using for the moment but I welcome other opinions. Does anybody else have thoughts on this? Borisashton ☎ 14:25, 19 July 2022 (UTC)