Talk:Mechanoid

Mechanoid vs Mechonoid

There seems to be a growing convention of refering to 'Mechonoids from the planet Mechanus' in a range of publications of late (including the Doctor Who: The Ultimate Monster Guide to the Doctor Who DVD Files). Should the wiki rename this title page. I am trying to establish exactly when the name-change occurs in various guides but it would seem that;

• 1973 The Making of Doctor Who refers to Mechons
• 1976 The Making of Doctor Who refers to Mechanoids
• 1981 The Doctor Who Programme Guide refers to Mechanoids
• 1989 The Chase (novelisation) refers to Mechonoids
• 2003 Doctor Who: The Legend (and from then on) refers to Mechonoids

The Librarian ^{talk to me} 19:21, September 30, 2011 (UTC)

Someone needs to decide one way or another - the page uses a mix, which is no help to anyone. There should also be a redirect from the alternative (I always Google my Doctor Who words with the hope of getting a link here, and was confused not to find one for "mechAnoid") 87.244.72.208^{talk to me} 18:51, March 20, 2013 (UTC)

5 years, and the mess still persists. I would like to add my voice to those who care about this issue. Please unify one way or the other.

Having said that, I believe that the policies dictate to use the in-universe spelling, which takes precedence over both guides and novelisations. I just checked the credits to one of the episodes of The Chase and saw the Mechonoid spelling there. If none of the comic books or books feature a different spelling, the question can, IMHO, be closed. Amorkuz ☎ 23:21, May 14, 2016 (UTC)

A question: the Death's Head page currently features a statement that Death's Head is "a Mechanoid, a term not related to the Mechanoids who oppose the Daleks" (or something to that effect). Doesn't the rename free up the space for an actual Mechanoid page that describes Death's Head's species, such as it is, instead of redirecting to Mechonoid? --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 14:04, September 28, 2018 (UTC)

Reopening this matter to raise that Eve of War features Mechanoid as the spelling in Issue 49, Issue 50 (the front cover, which presents itself as a real newspaper article uses it also but I don't know if we count TVC21 front covers as part of narratives) & Issue 51. They don't appear in the first two issues. So that's a consistent Mechanoid. Their other TVC appearance, Impasse, uses this spelling for its entirety as well (having it used by Daleks, the people of Zeros and even by a Mechanoid itself). The World That Waits also uses the Mechanoid spelling.

The Only Good Dalek dodges the matter by not naming the shell of one when it appears. Being open, some counterargument on me would be War of the Daleks - which uses in its little interlude a varied mix of Mechon and Mechonoid. And the novelisation of The Chase uses Mechonoid also.

I have no clue what The Juggernauts says, as I've not heard it thus far. (Additional note on episode credits; aside difficulty relying on those in usual cases, I would mention that though 'The Planet of Decision' renders them as Mechonoid & Mechonoid Voice, 'The Death of Doctor Who' renders them as Mechanoid & Mechanoid voice.) But I definitely thought it was worth raising that there is a fair bit of in-universe usage of the A spelling that needs to be discussed. JDPManjoume ☎ 22:07, October 7, 2020 (UTC)

Coming back to note the title and credits (Mechanoid Queen, and Mechanoid 2150, with Nicholas Briggs listed as voice of the other Mechanoids) of Planet of the Mechanoids as further point of discussion. Emperor Dalek also names them Mechanoids and The Mechanoid Queen also self-describes them as Mechanoids too.

That's four out of eleven appearances has now named them as Mechanoid. Two that use Mechonoid. One that utilised both in credits. One that dodges the matter. Guess we need to check the remaining three that have not yet been discussed - Juggernauts, Birth of a Legend and Consultation Exercise, as at the current moment, it looks like Mechanoid is leading in usage. JDPManjoume ☎ 18:37, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Whoops, didn't see this talk page discussion! A new point of data, then: when DW50Y 1 is discussing The Daleks, it says "Mechanoids [sic]", marking the spelling as variant or uncommon. Also, addressing The Juggernauts, the "Backstage" page for the audio on the BF website repeatedly quotes Nick Briggs and Scott Alan Woodard as using the "Mechonoids" spelling. I think the "a" variant should be mentioned in the first paragraph of the page, but the page should retain its name, as Mechonoid is the most common spelling among fans and we want the page to remain easily searchable. – N8 (☎/👁️) 19:17, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

An interesting point, though I would note that it is worth considering that DW50Y 1 is a publication by the DWM team and we know that DWM does have a style guide that differs from the most commonly used terms elsewhere - the main one being frequent use over the years of more apt production titles for the first three TV stories rather than the fandom-popular ones that have solidified with the DVD range. It would be hard to know how to utilise that without further context, I think.

Thanks for the info regarding The Juggernauts - that then makes:

• 6/15 appearances named them as Mechanoid. (Eve of War, Impasse, The World That Waits, Planet of the Mechanoids, The Deadly Ally, Day of Reckoning)
• 3/15 that use Mechonoid. (The Chase (novelisation), War of the Daleks, The Juggernauts)
• 1/15 that utilised both in credits and story. (The Chase, one episode with O and one episode with A... and with Steven calling them Mechanoid, one calling itself a Mechonoid and the Daleks calling them Mechons.)
• 1/15 that dodges the matter. (The Only Good Dalek)

And...

• 1/15 that has just released with rather a complication:

With the release of The House of Kingdom, we're back to the Mechonoids spelling for the cover... but rather frustratingly, the Tenth Doctor spends the story pronouncing it as Mechanoid. As does Anya and Mark. But even more problematic - when doing the vocal cast list at the end of the production, Kevin McNally credits Nicholas Briggs using that same MechAnoid pronunciation, implying such a spelling. That's a tricky one for me to quantify - do we ignore the packaging credits in favour of what's being used within the story both in terms of in-universe and the audio credits? Do we have precedents for packaging conflicts with the product content? (And for what it might be worth, people use the Mechanoid pronounication in the Behind the Scenes material too.)

This leaves, of course,

• 3/15 as yet unidentified on this page, those being:

Queen of the Mechonoids (though an evident spelling from the title - given THoK though, I couldn't take that for granted that's what's actually been used by the characters and the audio credits without someone hearing it and chiming in... and what's interesting is the BtS material of THoK seems to utilise a clip of it about 38 minutes in where River Song calls it a MechAnoid, so if someone can thoroughly check that story, that would be helpful. As this may be a similar complication to THoK), Birth of a Legend and Consultation Exercise to deal with. JDPManjoume ☎ 12:41, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Birth of a Legend and Consultation Exercise both use "Mechonoid". This brings us to:

• 6/15 for "Mechanoid"
• 5/15 for "Mechonoid" (and/or "Mechon")
• 2/15 that use both (House of Kingdom and The Chase)
• 1/15 that dodges the matter. (The Only Good Dalek)
• 1/15 uncertain, probably "Mechonoid" but possibly in the same boat as House of Kingdom (that being Queen of the Mechonoids).

In total we have eight sources for "Mechanoid" and seven for "Mechonoid", so it's a very close call but "Mechanoid" would get the slight numerical preference. Additionally, some of the sources which use "Mechonoid" (like Consultation Exercise) are mere one-line mentions, and so we may or may not want to count them as much as Planet of the Mechanoids or Eve of War which actually feature those rascally dodecahedra in centre-stage.

I'll hold off on the rename until we know for sure what's up with Queen, but I'm leaning towards "Mechanoid" here, to be sure.Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 12:29, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the info re. Birth of a Legend and Consultation Exercise. Have now heard Queen - 100-20 refers to itself as a Mechanoid when it meets Anya and Mark. And there's no variation in the story - River says Mechanoid, as does Anya and Annam.

But there's also another interesting turn in the tale, as I was rewatching The Chase this past weekend - we've already noted the credit for Mechanoid and that Steven uses the a... but I've come to the conclusion that I was at least partly if not entirely incorrect to state that Mechonoid was also used in it. 800-30 calls itself a Mechanoid at the end of 'The Death of Doctor Who'. The mec-ah-noid sound is actually rather clear now I've paid closer attention. It's hard to hear the only other usage in dialogue, which what is said just before the fight in 'The Planet of Decision' - an o or an a? It does sound like an a to me, but I'll welcome a second opinion there. I thought this rather interesting, as if both of those lines are concluded to be using an a... then that means that the long-held idea in my mind and perhaps other fans that there is an inconsistency of pronunication in the dialogue within The Chase is incorrect, and infact that all parties within the story itself call it Mechanoid. Which would leave the credit on 'The Planet of Decision' as a singular oddity within that story to be discussed. JDPManjoume ☎ 18:50, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

You're welcome to continue the investigation on the history of usage, for the sake of a naming BTS section on Mechanoid which, at this point, seems essential. However, I feel confident, now, in carrying out the rename from Mechonoid to Mechanoid (albeit with the former obviously retained as a redirect).

Not only do the in-universe sources for "Mechanoid" outnumber the "Mechonoid" ones, whatever marketing and reference guides might favour; but my reseolve was further strengthened by what came to light at Talk:Mechanoid City: all sources which feature the Mechanoid City use the "a" spelling. Therefore, that page should never have been called anything else than "Mechanoid City". And if that's a given, then it would be quite untidy to retain an inconsistency between our name for the species and the page for their species; like if we had "The Meddling Monk's TARDIS" but "Mortimus", or something like that.

Also like the Monk, however — or, to be more precise, like what I outlined at Talk:The Monk#Article made from whole cloth — we should attempt to what individual sources use in our coverage, since both terms are valid. So, statements cited to a story which unambiguously uses "Mechonoid" (like War of the Daleks) should use the "Mechonoid", albeit while still linking to Mechanoid thanks to a pipe trick. Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 22:24, 4 May 2021 (UTC)