Talk:Omniverse

Reality Bomb and Ultimate Sanction

I would like to start the very first discussion on the article by asking this; Did Davros' Reality Bomb or Rassilon's Ultimate Sanction pose a threat to the Omniverse, or just to the multiverse where the Doctor's universe existed? Was either of these plans confirmed to only efect the Doctor's multiverse alone or more than that? The Fox King (talk) 05:57, July 6, 2015 (UTC)

Having found this talk page seven years later, I would absolutely like to ask the same question. Seems like speculation to me. Najawin ☎ 06:15, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Davros in Journey's End is pretty clear that he intends for his bomb to destroy every reality of any kind. "Every dimension, every parallel, every single corner of Creation", is the phrase he uses. We are not talking about a particular causal nexus here, but about all parallel universes in existence. (Naturally some logic-minded people have quibbled about whether the bomb could possibly have achieved that aim; but Davros certainly claims it would, is the point.) And then this definition of "every corner of Creation" by Davros as "all parallels and dimensions" is, as far as I can tell, linked to Rassilon the Narrator in The End of Time talking about the Ultimate Sanction making it so that "Creation itself" will "cease to be". I agree that second part is somewhat fishy, as there are certainly stories where "Creation" is just used to mean "the Universe"… but the first half is solid.

Though even then, I suppose this does get at the question of whether we want this page to be about specific uses of the technobabble term 'Omniverse', or about the concept it putatively designates of "all extant worlds, absolutely all of them". (Heaven forbid we find a DWU source using the deplorable Marvel terminology where "Omniverse" is still itself only a subcategory…) It's all quite tricky, and made trickier by the fact that some sources do use "the Multiverse" to mean the same thing, with no time at all for fussy notions of multiple multiverses within a wider infinity.

Part of me wants to restrict multiverse and omniverse to stricter listings of when the terms were used by DWU sources and in what precise context, without trying to carve out leads establishing what each term "really" means. But it does also feel correct that we should have a page about "the sum total of all realities and dimensions", if only precisely to document instances like Journey's End where DWU sources discuss this concept without using either of the "-verse" coinages. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 17:43, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

I see nothing contradictory with saying that Davros intended it to destroy a multiverse rather than the Omniverse, but, sure, whatever. The Rassilon one is the one I'm really concerned about, though I note that to say "all creation" refers to the Omniverse, using Journey's End as a source, when Journey's End doesn't use the term Omniverse, is at best begging the question. Najawin ☎ 18:43, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Davros intended it to destroy "every dimension, every parallel"; to leave the Daleks as "the only living things in existence". This does not square with the idea of it ultimately only destroying a minuscule subset of the totality of existing parallel universes; of the various omniversal people glimpses in something like The Glorious Dead being unaffected. Whether this means that he is destroying "the Omniverse," or that Journey's End as an account is not countenancing the concept of "other multiverses" within its diegesis in the first place, is I think precisely the sort of question Russel T Davies does not want or expect us to worry about.

But yes, I agree this situation is a mess. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 19:32, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Quite honestly, I don't think Davies was likely even aware of this particular EU nuance. Najawin ☎ 19:43, 20 September 2022 (UTC)