Talk:The Master/Archive 3

	This page is an archive. Please do not make any edits here. Edit the active conversation only.

Infobox image discussion closed

I noticed that the polls seem to indicate that a grid style image like Tybort's third suggestion would be preferable to more people. Isn't it worth examining if most people want something different? Memnarc ☎ 23:35, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

I think what confused me was that the discussion of the Doctor was ongoing (filled with long breaks), so I didn't properly check if this was absolutely closed. Legacy of the Daleks really nullified a good chunk of the image search though. Shame. -- Tybort (talk page) 23:42, September 2, 2012 (UTC)

While the numbers may show a certain leaning, we operate a policy similar to the one explained here, at Wikipedia. Ultimately, after a lengthy discussion both here and at talk:The Doctor, the images now in use were selected. If you really object to their use, you should at least check over all that text (and trust me, there's alot) before coming to your conclusions. I personally see no fault in the image design and all the alternatives you've suggested (e.g. the grid) are discussed (at length) in those previous debates.--Skittles the hog - talk 00:00, September 3, 2012 (UTC)

It's all too easy to glance at some old polls and come away with a skewed version of what the hell happened in a discussion. The technical truth here is that polls can't be turned off. Thus, people have added votes long after the fact. I'll grant you if you only look at the polls, it seems that Skittles, Mini-mitch and I are telling a Big Fat Fib. (This is particularly exacerbated by the fact that the original poll was done using the "Top 10" feature. Because that feature has since been discontinued, the poll itself has vanished, so the first link in the chain of polls can no longer be viewed.)

But as Skittles rightly points out, we value discussion more than polls. Polls can assist us when we're trying to make an arbitrary choice. But they can always be trumped by the reasonable argument.

And if you actually read the text between the polls, you see a lot of reasonable arguments. The biggest one is that the Deadly Assassin, "decrepit" Master is the Delgado Master. Thus, all designs which featured that version were summarily disqualified. That's just about every design that was ever proposed. And if you read further, you'll see there was then 100% agreement that we go with the current, 5-up design. So at the end of this very long discussion that ran from late March to late August 2011, the current design passed without objection — and with a nice gap of a month for people to lodge complaints.

You don't get much clearer results in wiki discussions. That's why this matter is so firmly closed. It took us six months to get a result. Now that we have one, there's really no need to investigate this matter any further — until a new version of the Master appears on screen.

Even then, the image which emerges will adhere to the visual principles of the current design, because that's been agreed. It won't be an image that tries to capture all the Masters. Nor will it be one that has six, equally-sized panes. The then-current Master will be given the lion's share of the design, and one of the older Masters — almost certainly Eric Roberts — will be bumped.

Furthermore, a rotational image, as is currently being discussed at Talk:The Doctor can't be used here. If a rotational image is eventually employed at the Doctor, a key element of the design is that the pictures will include the captions, "First Doctor", "Second Doctor", etc. We can't do that here, because the Masters don't have clear names. Thus, a collage remains the only viable path for the Master.

And with that explanation done, I'm archiving the bulk of this page. We're stickin' with the — exhaustively discussed — image we have.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍  14:07: Sat 08 Sep 2012

Available technology has a way of making a nonsense of the best laid plans. As it turned out, the particular CSS solution used at the Doctor offered a really dramatic and elegant solution to the problem of "the Time Lord image". For this reason, I'm dropping the caption requirement as wholly unnecessary, which means that I can deploy the new rotational imagery here, too. I've even thrown back in the "decrepit Master", even though he is narratively the same as the Delgado Master, because now this imagery is simply a document of the various images of the Master through the years. The pictures seen aren't really up for negotiation here, any more than they are at the Doctor. It's hoped that this technology will be seen as a final settlement of the "how do you illustrate a Time Lord" problem.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍  00:31: Wed 14 Nov 2012

Unit Dominion

Apparently the new Big Finish Audio Unit Dominion features The Master. Since it's the Seventh Doctor with Raine, I'm assuming it's a post-Master(Audio)m pre-The Tv Movie Master. It's not Geoffrey Beevers. How dos this fit into The Master's timeline, and what are the circumstances of his change of body? I haven't heard it, but if I had, i probably couldn't do anything about it anyway, as the article is locked. 41.133.0.18^{talk to me} 12:38, November 2, 2012 (UTC)

Well, first off, add it to The Master/Rewrite when you add it here. Also the page is now unlocked. UNIT Dominion. I'm adding the voice actor to the thingy thing thing. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 16:09, November 2, 2012 (UTC)