Theory:Doctor Who television discontinuity and plot holes/Twice Upon a Time

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This page is for discussing the ways in which Twice Upon a Time doesn't fit well with other DWU narratives. You can also talk about the plot holes that render its own, internal narrative confusing.

Remember, this is a forum, so civil discussion is encouraged. However, please do not sign your posts. Also, keep all posts about the same continuity error under the same bullet point. You can add a new point by typing:

* This is point one.
::This is a counter-argument to point one.
:::This is a counter-argument to the counter-argument above
* This is point two.
::Explanation of point two.
::Further discussion and query of point two.

... and so on. 

• The ruined place where Rusty is is said to be at the centre of the Universe, but shouldn't Terminus be there?

Terminus was a time the centre of the KNOWN universe to its creators, while Villengard is Then ACTUAL centre of the universe.

Terminus ends up in the hands of the Vanir, a group with a penchant for Norse-sounding names. The similarly named Villengard and its weapon factories may well have been a later commercial enterprise by the same group, and thus located in much the same place.

How can either Villengard or Terminus be the centre of the universe? All points in the universe are it's center point since space expands unilaterally.

Real World beliefs do not apply to the Whoniverse.

• The actor playing Ben doesn’t bother with a cockney accent.

The framing of the scene suggests we're seeing the Tenth Planet flashbacks subjectively, in the Twelfth Doctor's recollections of the First's final hours, trying to work out how the figure in front of him has just appeared. As the First Doctor was dying at the time, and specifically has difficulty hearing Ben's words in the original, asking him what he said, the Doctor simply doesn't remember Ben's voice accurately for those words.

The actor probably just forgot to put on the accent or didn't know about it. This is likely a production error, not just a continuity error.

• Why does the First Doctor not recognise the sonic screwdriver? He invented it (TV: A Christmas Carol) patented it (Audio: The Unknown) and they were in production on Galifrey when he left (Audio: The Beginning).

He is regenerating; maybe he is forgetful. Also, he displays his preference for going hands free; he may just be attempting to prove he and his future self are not the same person; all Doctors do things differently.

Another plausible explanation is that it looks drastically different to the Classic Era Sonics. Your past self from the 90s may question what your iPhone is, as it looks nothing like their current Nokia 3310, then even show a disgust at you doing 'everything' on it.

The First Doctor didn't invent the Sonic screwdriver, or build the Sonic Screwdriver. The Second Doctor did.

• Why is the First Doctor sexist? He comes from a gender-fluid upbringing, he should be above such stuff and unphased by Bill's sexuality.

The Tenth Doctor once told his Fifth incarnation that they were once uptight, old, grumpy, (something like that) "like you do when you're young", implying his original self felt it right to be high profile. Plus, he may have become accustomed to such a style of behavior from having lived in 1960s Britain for a good while.

The First Doctor called the criminalisation of homosexuality in the 1960s "society's crime" and didn't care that Oliver Harper was gay. (AUDIO: The Cold Equations)

Your question was sexist, as in misogynistic. He also does not berate her sexuality upon learning of it.

I fail to see how my question is sexist/misogynistic. You are right he does not berate her, I never said he did, but he does look surprised when she says she is into women and seems to think her job as a companion is to dust the TARDIS. Was that the job of Susan/Barbra/Viki/Dodo/Polly? Also after spending several hundred years living on Galifrey a don't think a few years at most on Earth could effect his judgement to any degree.

You miss understand. They were saying the question asks "Why is the First Doctor sexist", hence the question is referring to sexism thus is a question about sexism; therefore "the question is sexist".

I thought about this and I think that the delayed regeneration was affecting his brain. His physical appearance had altered slightly so it's possible that some archaic social values the First Doctor was familiar with came to the fore while the delayed regeneration was altering him.

I don't really see that biological gender-fluidity on Gallifrey makes sexism culturally impossible; after all, on Earth, homophobic individuals are quite physically capable of homosexual acts; there's no corollary. Its true that gender-fluidity would make sexism nonsensical; but its already nonsensical. The prejudices might be different "oh, people who wear female bodies are obviously better suited to do the dusting" for instance, but it's highly likely that the stuffy, conservative, and very male dominated Gallifrey of the pre-war era could have such prejudice; its the same culture the Doctor rejected and ran away from, but in all respects took a long time to totally shake off.

As for why the First Doctor is so much more sexist than usual- he isn't usually working alongside a future version of himself who is evidently hideously embarrassed by such comments.

The initial observation about Polly was unfortunate but fairly typical, however, Twelve's reaction shows he struck a nerve, and, being the Doctor, and rather out of his depth, he deliberately plays it up to goad his other self into staying off balance - and quite possibly also to 'test' Bill, who he's aware Twelve can't be objective about, despite his distrust. The 'smacked bottom' comment, right after Twelve has pledged his respect for Bill to her, is One being a deliberate troll, which is the very epitomy of his character.

• This is obviously a howler of a continuity error. Only two episodes previously the Doctor tells Bill that Timelords are above gender and sexuality politics and regards it as petty. The scene where the First Doctor and the Captain have a nice snigger at Bill seems to have been written solely to make a stupid and offensive joke. If the Doctor is going to be turned, ridiculously, into a homophobic misognynist then the issue has to be addressed. But no attempt is made to do so.

The Doctor hasn't lived on Gallifrey for over a thousand years, when he describes Gallifreyan gender politics to Bill, he may simply have forgotten that they're not quite as utopian as he thinks, and he may be romanticising his own past. If you used to be sexist but haven't been one for hundreds of years, it's understandable you might want to make yourself look better in the eyes of a friend who's a gay woman.

• How did the Doctor get his TARDIS back? Both Doctors left the ship to take the First Doctor's TARDIS, but after deciding to put the captain back, both TARDIS' are suddenly back.

You answered your own question. By taking the Captain back, they did the company a favour, hence where given their TARDIS back.

• The way the First Doctor's regeneration scene is edited gives the impression he regenerated alone, but in The Tenth Planet we see Ben and Polly were in the TARDIS with him when he did.

As someone said above, those sections appear to be the Doctor remembering the incident. He opened the doors for Ben and Polly but lost consciousness, thus would have no knowledge that they came in and were at his side as he changed.

Random thought- perhaps he didn't. In "The Tenth Planet", we cut from Ben and Polly, outside, banging on the doors of the TARDIS and panicking that they're about to be left behind, to the First Doctor, inside, slumped over the console, watching its controls operate themselves, to the First Doctor laying on the floor, with Ben and Polly coming in offscreen. We never see how they get in. Various multi-Doctor stories suggest that the TARDIS herself is not only immune to the Blinovitch Limitation Effect, but able to merge, split, and generally communicate and interact across her own timeline at will- it's a dimension she's in control of. Quite possibly the First Doctor, after leaving 1917, did indeed immediately begin to collapse and regenerate. Perhaps the switches and levers we see operating themselves in "The Tenth Planet", are working because Twelve, in his era's console room, is remote operating the First Doctor's TARDIS to fly it back to Snowcap 1986, and either open the doors or possibly even materialise around his human companions from back then, having remembered that Ben and Polly were back on board when he woke up in his Second body and he never knew how they got in.

Notably, perhaps, when the Second Doctor is recovering from his regeneration in his next story, he struggles to "Concentrate on one thing..." - focusing on some of the console controls. This seems a little similar to how the Doctor tried- and failed- to help Amy hang on to the memory of Rory in "Cold Blood". Perhaps this was the Doctor, having come through the regeneration, desperately trying to hang on to the memories of his out-of-synch encounter with his future self. Remembering that the Doctor saw evidence of the Time War in this story, and in "Power of the Daleks", he frets of the Daleks "I know the misery they cause... the destruction... but there's something else, more terrible, something I can only half remember..." suggests that he may have managed to retain a few fragments of knowledge, influencing certain of his future life choices- his speech about evil in "The Moonbase", for instance.

Highly plausible, the Doctors do go on to say they remember the past only when in the moment themselves. Donna was the same, her subconscious recalling stuff that her active consciousness did not; it kinda acts like a distant dream.

• The 1st Doctor's TARDIS lacks a directional unit so piloting it is impossible even for someone as experienced as the 12th Doctor, it's like driving a car without a steering wheel.

There was never anything wrong with the Tardis. The first three Doctors just sucked at flying it (with the third gradually learning). Blaming it on the tech is just a way to protect their pride. The Time Lords certainly had no problem pioleting it remotely at the end of War Games too.

In the Classic series the TARDIS always had a faulty directional unit.

Just because the Doctor sys it has a faulty directional unit, doesn't mean it actually does. Rule 1, the Doctor lies. There's many instances of the Tardis being pioleted accurately in the early classic series. As I mentioned, the Time Lords do it remotely in War Games. The Second Doctor also manages it in the Five Doctors.

In the Five Doctors, he's rather surprised he was able to steer the TARDIS. Actually means nothing in the context of the direction unit not working.

In "The Name of the Doctor" Clara suggested the 1st Doctor to steal a TARDIS with a broken navigational system, given how the scenes were structured we must assume that was the TARDIS that he took, consequently cancelling your theory that only the Doctor says it's a faulty TARDIS. In the War Games, the Time Lords controlled the TARDIS telephatically, not through buttons, so that doesn't mean the TARDIS wasn't broken and even if it wasn't I don't think the Doctor would had made such a fuss in The Dalek Master Plan that he couldn't return to Kembel without a directional unit, don't forget he piloted perfectly the Dalek ship (that resembled a TARDIS in many aspects) in The Chase.

If that's the case, then when do you suggest the navigational unit was fixed? And on what basis do you parallel it to driving without a steering wheel? It could be the equivalent to driving without satnav, or driving without wing mirrors. Regardless, it's clear that the Doctor does slowly learn how to pilot the Tardis throughout the series. It's a point of pride when he gets to where he wants to go and a point of mockery from the other characters when he fails. Everything suggests that pioleting the Tardis is something that's perfectly doable, the Doctor in his first few incarnations just doesn't know how (implied in The Parting of Ways because it's designed to be flown by six people in the first place. Oh, and there's mupltiple references to him throwing out the manual too, outright confirming he didn't know what he was doing). And if it was lacking a navigation system, it could easily still lack it as even in the modern era the Tardis messes up to the benefit of no one, like in The Girl Who Waited.

The Doctor only started lying from his 11th incarnation onwards!

Dr#2:"Well, I was bored." >>>29 seasons later>>> Dr#12:"I didn't leave Gallifrey because I was bored! That was a lie! It's always been a lie!"

The analogy is accurate; but only up to a point. Yes, Sexy's navigation system is knackered. Per "The Green Death", the space time co-ordinate programmer is a wretched thing which is almost worn out. In "Escape Switch", the Doctor attempts to compensate for this by wiring in a MkIV directional unit instead- basically, the equivalent of fitting a high end graphics card on to a low end system to boost performance; it works, but risks burning out the system altogether; fortunately it's the directional unit which breaks, rather than the TARDIS herself.

Also note that, in "The War Games", the Second Doctor manages to pilot the TARDIS flawlessly to the locations he's aiming for, in his failed attempts to escape the Time Lords. It's fair to say that, yes, the TARDIS is badly defective- but this doesn't make her unsteerable, just a lot more *difficult* to steer than a properly functioning TT Capsule would be. The First Doctor has only been trying to do it for a few hundred years- the Twelfth has at least a thousand years or more experience of piloting her. Notably, in this story, Twelve takes One's TARDIS to Villengard with no trouble at all, much to One's shock.

Didn't he just wanted to get far from the battlezones in The War Games? He set a destination but he didn't got there, instead he got in a sea, however this is a more plausible explanation so I think I'm going to stick with this one.

To return to the 'car without a steering wheel' analogy - sure, you can remote operate a car without a steering wheel, if you assume that your remote control rig doesn't actually *use* the control surface of the car, but instead turns the steering column with electromagnets or something. In that instance, the state of the 'wheel' end becomes irrelevant.

The Twelfth Doctor claims in Smile, that you don't 'steer' the TARDIS, you negotiate, between where you want to go, and where you need to go (The Doctor's Wife). The Doctor has shown to pilot with precision before, Parting of the Ways, Bells of Saint John etc. so it might have taken skill, equate the first Doctor to a person stealing a plane, and not knowing how to fly it with no prior knowledge, yes theres an autopilot and you might have basics, but it would take a while to be able to master it. The Eleventh Doctor said the Chameleon circuit hasn't been broken that long, so he lies about the state of the ship, maybe the navigation system is only slightly off, and it was just the Doctor covering up for his inexperience.

• If the Doctor regenerated into a woman, shouldn't she be called "the Nurse" now?

Remember that Rory was a Nurse as well. It is just sexist to think that Doctor is just a guy name. Especially when the name Doctor in canon is derivative from the Doctor himself. So in essence the word doctor we have in the Whoniverse is actually an alien word.

well no because "the Doctor" is used as a name not a title. Also the title doctor is genderless. Women can be doctors and men can be nurses.

• In The Gunfighters (which canonically proceeds this story by only five other classic stories) the Doctor repeatedly claims he doesn't drink alcohol. So why does he have a jar of brandy in this one that he's been saving for a long time?

Well the Doctor lies as he drinks wine happily in The Romans and his hypocrisy about guns is well known.

When in Rome? I guess that just means the headscratcher should be on The Gunfighters page.

It's more than just The Gunfighters vs. The Romans. He also claims to never touch alcohol in The Smugglers (which is even more recent than The Gunfighters for him here), and he drinks mead in The Time Meddler. Also, notice that he's not just lying about never touching alcohol—he's also _hiding_ his alcohol. Unless he's a closet alcoholic (which I suppose isn't impossible, but doesn't seem likely), he's probably fibbing to set a good example to the (usually quite young) humans around him—something he doesn't need to do with, say, the Twelfth Doctor.

My memories of the Gunfighters is pretty hazy, but I'm relatively sure most of the time he refuses to drink in that story occurs when his companions aren't around...so him being a closet alcoholic seems more likely...someone please make a youtube video about this.

• How did the Twelfth Doctor change the timeline so that everyone was magically now in the Christmas Armistice? And follow up: if it entailed time traveling with the express goal of contradicting the very thing that motivated him to time travel in the first place by changing it in history, how did that not create a paradox?

What do you mean by everyone?

Well he said that he'd tweaked Archibald's timeline so that that's the moment he would otherwise have died, but it's the whole battlefield exactly as they were, not just him. It's not like the Doctors simply took him to a different time of the day than when he originally came from; everyone is exactly as they were in the moment he was plucked from his timeline, including the German soldier that was supposed to shoot him. How did they do that?

• Somehow the Thirteenth Doctor came out of her regeneration wearing mascara and with clear ear holes for piercings.

Maybe, although while regenerating into an incarnation of the same gender only his natural appearencce changes, when his gender changes so do other aspects such as clothing.

And the third rolled out of it with a cool tattoo, the tenth with a good amount of product in his hair. These things happen