User:SOTO/Forum Archive/Inclusion debates/@comment-4028641-20170306172600/@comment-28349479-20190529132904

I think we need a "Please don't over-post in the forums" rule ;)

Shambala108 wrote: First, there is more to Tardis:Valid sources than just the four little rules. It's misleading to assume that all you have to do is run down a checklist to therefore declare something valid or invalid. I suggest a careful reading of that page (and for good measure, Tardis talk:Canon policy/Archive 2 is useful for User:CzechOut's attempts to explain our policy to a doubting editor).

I'm rather surprised to see an admin say this. Are you sure this is the current consensus among admins? I can think of countless inclusion debates that have been waged, lost, and won based on the four little rules and the four little rules alone, so it seems funny to me that all of a sudden there are undefined extra considerations that no one has taken into account. I've just re-read that seven-years-old talk page about "canon policy" and it seems to me like CzechOut's responses are actually reaffirming the four little rules: note in particular how his explanation of Dimensions in Time's invalidity hinges entirely on its licensing issues rather than anything to do with Rule 4.

With that in mind I think the case for the "guilty by association with Dimensions in Time" stories is actually stronger than I previously thought, since they clearly don't have the same rights issues, and there's no risk of being infected by any Rule-4-sy "non-DWU"-ness. In other words: since (eg) Rescue is a story by itself (independent of any other), officially released, and fully licensed, the only possible rule it might be breaking is Rule 4, that it doesn't belong in the normal Doctor Who universe. And I suspect the original (albeit wholly unexplained, per Thread:136969) logic behind its exclusion was indeed that, since it was set in "the universe of Dimensions in Time" (an invalid story), it fails this rule. But Dimensions in Time doesn't break Rule 4 either; it's only invalid because of Rule 2! It actually is set in the Doctor Who universe, so by extension, so is Rescue, and therefore Rescue satisfies all four of the conditions for validity. QED.

This isn't an endorsement of the "Referencing/featuring characters or concepts from a non-DWU story makes a story non-DWU" chain of logic, though; as I've mentioned previously, everything from The Gallifrey Chronicles to Opera of Doom! would be invalid in that case. I'm just guessing as to the logic that went into the original decision. Regardless of whether sequels and prequels are more broadly re-valid-ified across the wiki as a whole, Rescue at the very least doesn't deserve its invalid tag by any argument.

(Btw, CzechOut, if you're reading this: "I know of no fan who genuinely believes, without proviso, that Dimensions in Time is a part of the stories they consider canon." Here's an exception for you, from a perhaps-recognizable username no less!)