User:SOTO/Forum Archive/Inclusion debates/@comment-5.2.105.85-20170222095120/@comment-5.2.105.85-20170224094935

I'd like very much to add that the authorial intent argument is very flimsy in nature.

JNT when promoting DIT, he stated he decided to make the special when he believed it to be the only available send off to Doctor Who, stating ideas with David Roden about the Master and the Celestial Toymaker appearing in the Doctor's final adventure. Him and David 100% at the time of production and release intended it to be the Doctor's final story and definitely set in the DWU, even when the fictional EE land appeared. It's DW... nothing is real.

It wasn't until 4 years later in a 1997 edition of DWM that JNT (in accordance to the bad backlash from DIT) said he didn't count it to the mythos anymore, whatever that is and that he didn't care what people thought about it. Which implies he didn't mind if people considered it "canon" or not.

This was his way of semi-jokingly defending his piece, and letting fans think what they want.

Which all adds up to him counting it, until fans didn't like it so he just followed the crowd then and said, basically that it's up to the fans whether they count it.

Even if this joking statement was taken as gospel, it wouldn't be enough. Many authors have gone against their VNAs since the revival. Again, this doesn't matter - it's production and release intent. Also David Roden still counts it as part of the "mythos" and even left it in the BBC's official episode guide. This is why many reference guides, like the WHOology, include it in their "canonical" episode list because the BBC's official list tells you to.

Again, if anyone is to bring the authorial intent argument up, we need intent from both writers and it has to be at the time of production or release as our four little rules state.

If Steven Moffat said in DWM that he no longer counted his CIN special Time Crash we'd ignore it as it's not at the time of production or release.

I'd also like to request that when the decision on this topic is made, it is not made by CzechOut as he closed the first thread and clearly disallowed it on the grounds that he hated hit - I don't blame him for this as a lot has changed in 6 years. New rules have been formed.

So if this thread is closed, it can't be on continuity grounds, it has to be authorial intent from the time of release or production.

If the above can not be presented, then this wiki would have to include it.