Talk:Born Again (TV story): Difference between revisions

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==Nitpick question==
{{ArchCat}}
When I encountered it, the Nitpick section had this issue:
::''The Doctor says about [[Jack Harkness|Captain Jack]] "he's busy, he's got plenty to do, rebuilding the Earth" implying that he knows Jack is alive and well, or wants Rose to think he is, as at the time he has no way of knowing Jack's alive.
Surely, though, ''[[Utopia (TV story)|Utopia]]'' resolves this issue.  The Doctor chose to run away from Jack.  We might not have seen the Ninth Doctor seeing Jack running towards the TARDIS, but the Tenth Doctor implies that's exactly what happened.  Rewording to reflect this.  '''[[User:CzechOut|<span style="background:blue;color:white">Czech</span><span style="background:red;color:white">Out</span>]]'''  [[User talk:CzechOut|☎]] | [[Special:Contributions/CzechOut|<font size="+1">✍</font>]] 10:48, 1 December 2007 (UTC)


== "Born Again" ==
== Born Again ==
I would like to re-propose this page be renamed to "Born Again" (source: [https://archive.org/details/doctorwhocompani0000trib Doctor Who Companions and Allies]). It is also now a relatively widely used title online and amongst fandom. (Also, the very first panel of [[Liberation of the Daleks (comic story)|Liberation of the Daleks]] says "Born Again. Again." which is a deliberate wink to the first time we saw the Doctor looking like David Tennant.) [[User:FractalDoctor|FractalDoctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:41, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
:I'd consider this a hard "no". It has never been released under any title other than ''Children In Need Special''. [[User:Bwburke94|bwburke94]] ([[User talk:Bwburke94|talk]]) 10:15, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
:: Children in Need special is far too ambiguous. People usually think of Dimensions in Time or Time Crash when those words are uttered. It’s as useless as naming The Christmas Invasion - Christmas Special. RTD refers to it as Born Again in almost every source. He wrote it. That’s what most people know it is as. The current title makes the wiki look silly.
::I don’t think them not being bothered to put the title on the dvd release is a valid enough reason to ignore its title. {{Unsigned|81.108.82.15}}


Hey all! I recently bought the reference book ''Companions and Allies'' and it says on page 70 that the title of this mini episode is "Born Again". Should this website reflect this? --[[User:Alan-WK|Alan-WK]] 16:13, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
:::I agree that ''Born Again'' would be a better title. [[User:LauraBatham|LauraBatham]] [[User talk:LauraBatham|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 11:52, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
::::Yeah, alright. This isn't a TV Movie situation where there ''was'' a formal production title that's just inconveniently vague, and where, although most of the fandom calls it "the Movie" or "the TVM", it's (arguably) not ''precisely'' an official "title". This is just an otherwise-genuinely-''untitled'' work, given an actual, tangible, consistent title in later promotional and documentary material. Perhaps there was once not enough evidence, but given the confusion likely to be caused by something as vague as ''Children in Need Special'', '''the time has come to carry out this rename once and for all'''. The redirect can however be retained; anyone looking for a ''different'' CiN Special will get [[Children in Need]] suggested to them by the search bar, so it's not an issue. [[User:Scrooge MacDuck|'''Scrooge MacDuck''']] [[User_talk:Scrooge MacDuck|⊕]] 19:12, 2 March 2023 (UTC)


:I'm a little unsure on this one. Is the name for the title attributed to anyone (or from anything like a script etc), or is it another working title? --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] 16:16, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
== Rough-cut ==


::I wish I knew the answer to that. It was totally new to me when I read it in ''Companions and Allies''. I was just happy to see a proper title.--[[User:Alan-WK|Alan-WK]] 18:04, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
There has been a recent change on the page claiming this: "The Region 1 and Region 4 DVD releases contained the correct version, along with all subsequent Region 2 releases." That last part about all subsequent Region 2 releases is not true at all. I have the Series 1-7 Blu-Ray boxset, and it definitely still has the rough-cut. [[User:Chapmike|Chapmike]] [[User talk:Chapmike|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 01:51, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
:::The DWM reviewer suggests this is possibly a bit of nonsense. It might also be a "misunderstood title", such as the 1996 movie being called Enemy Within by some and Out of the Ashes by others. The fact this information is included in a BBC-licenced book suggests further investigation is warranted. Maybe someone can ask RTD next time they see him. I have created a redirect under the Born Again title in case someone goes looking for the story under that title after having read the book. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 15:54, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 
:::the clincher would come down to whether it got used in more than one reference work. the article probably needs a better title, anyway, like 2005 Children In Need Special, which a couple of CIN specials have come out with Whoniverse content. (obviously.) --[[User:Stardizzy2|Stardizzy2]] 16:11, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
:::: As noted below, an attempt has been made to move the article, but there still is simply this one source giving this title, and we know from past experience BBC media is not always accurate, given how many wild and varied titles the Radio Times has given early Hartnell stories over the years. I'm still leaning towards trusting DWM on this since they have direct links to the production team -- heck, one of their main writers co-wrote The Writers Tale with RTD -- plus other sources, printed and website, have been using the Children in Need Special title. Until and unless we see more sources reflecting it, I personally see ''Born Again'' in the same light as ''Enemy Within'' or even ''100,000 BC''. If anyone is reading this from DWM, maybe they could get RTD to clarify the issue in one of his last columns? For now I say we keep using this title based on the fact that it is the title used by the BBC for the DVD release. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 14:44, September 26, 2009 (UTC)
 
==Page move reverted==
A user has attempted to move this page to Born Again. Please discuss and seek consensus before trying this again. Note the discussion above. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 14:32, September 26, 2009 (UTC)
 
:As discussed in the above discussion we would need a further source to confirm this. As Stardizzy2 has said another reference work stating this title would be a good start. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] 14:50, September 26, 2009 (UTC)
::And I just remembered that BBC Video used ''Children in Need Special'' as the title for its DVD release, therefore we should use this title based on the precedent set by ''[[An Unearthly Child]]''. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 16:53, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 01:51, 29 June 2023

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 Archives: #1

Born Again[[edit]]

I would like to re-propose this page be renamed to "Born Again" (source: Doctor Who Companions and Allies). It is also now a relatively widely used title online and amongst fandom. (Also, the very first panel of Liberation of the Daleks says "Born Again. Again." which is a deliberate wink to the first time we saw the Doctor looking like David Tennant.) FractalDoctor ☎ 19:41, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

I'd consider this a hard "no". It has never been released under any title other than Children In Need Special. bwburke94 (talk) 10:15, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
Children in Need special is far too ambiguous. People usually think of Dimensions in Time or Time Crash when those words are uttered. It’s as useless as naming The Christmas Invasion - Christmas Special. RTD refers to it as Born Again in almost every source. He wrote it. That’s what most people know it is as. The current title makes the wiki look silly.
I don’t think them not being bothered to put the title on the dvd release is a valid enough reason to ignore its title. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.108.82.15 (talk • contribs) .
I agree that Born Again would be a better title. LauraBatham ☎ 11:52, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
Yeah, alright. This isn't a TV Movie situation where there was a formal production title that's just inconveniently vague, and where, although most of the fandom calls it "the Movie" or "the TVM", it's (arguably) not precisely an official "title". This is just an otherwise-genuinely-untitled work, given an actual, tangible, consistent title in later promotional and documentary material. Perhaps there was once not enough evidence, but given the confusion likely to be caused by something as vague as Children in Need Special, the time has come to carry out this rename once and for all. The redirect can however be retained; anyone looking for a different CiN Special will get Children in Need suggested to them by the search bar, so it's not an issue. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 19:12, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

Rough-cut[[edit]]

There has been a recent change on the page claiming this: "The Region 1 and Region 4 DVD releases contained the correct version, along with all subsequent Region 2 releases." That last part about all subsequent Region 2 releases is not true at all. I have the Series 1-7 Blu-Ray boxset, and it definitely still has the rough-cut. Chapmike ☎ 01:51, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

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