Talk:Shirley Anne Bingham

Shirley Anne Bingham

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Rename

She's just credited as "Shirley Bingham", so her introducing herself with the "Anne" is no different than someone using their full name as an introduction. BananaClownMan ☎ 22:35, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

All the promotional material refers to her as "Shirley Anne Bingham", though. Aquanafrahudy 📢 🖊️ 18:57, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

That certainly does muddy the water, but surely the episode credits take precedence over promotional material? After all, it one thing to be promoted with a full name, and given a more traditional fore and surname in the official credits? BananaClownMan ☎ 10:52, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

In the episode, she's referred to only as "Shirley Anne Bingham", though, and never "Shirley Bingham". I think we should wait and see if any episodes refer to her as the latter before making any hasty decisions. Aquanafrahudy 📢 🖊️ 10:56, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. BananaClownMan ☎ 11:04, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

In The Giggle, she is only called Shirley. I think this is grounds to rename the page to just "Shirley Bingham", as she is credited again in the credits. At the very least, it would prevent editors mistakenly calling her "Shirley Anne", in the same vein as Sarah Jane Smith, on her page. BananaClownMan ☎ 11:16, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

But I think Sarah Jane Smith is just the precedent! It seems she's "Shirley" for short but "Shirley Anne Bingham" when she gives her full name: we still have no "Shirley Bingham". See also Yasmin Khan, who is most often Yaz but never ever Yaz Khan. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 11:26, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure what's being said here; I just used Sarah Jane as an example because the article called her "Shirley Anne" after the broadcast of The Star Beast, due to editors thinking her name was "Shirley Anne" despite the credits. It was then that I advocated dropping the Anne in the page name to align with the credits and prevent such confusion happening again, but then User:Aquanafrahudy brought up how she was promoted with her full name and only referred to as such in The Star Beast, so it was agreed upon to wait and see what she would be called in her next appearance. So, now that her second episode has just called her Shirley and still credited her as "Shirley Bingham", I think we're safe to rename to page to just forename and surname. BananaClownMan ☎ 20:21, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm in favour of keeping the full name, since we know what it is. — Fractal Doctor @ 20:28, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

We found out Amy's name was "Amelia Jessica Pond" in her second episode, but her page has never been called "Amy Jessica Pond". Furthermore, the DVD release for The Star Beast and The Giggle have "Ruth Madeley Introduces Shirley Bingham" in their context, which means that episode dialogue, episode credits and official home releases now call her just "Shirley Bingham", with just a handful of promotional material (of which I can say I personally have never seen, so I can't judge it properly) including the middle name. I believe this is cause enough for the rename. BananaClownMan ☎ 10:46, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

I agree that this page should be moved to Shirley Bingham. Jack "BtR" Saxon ☎ 13:48, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Has the term "Shirley Bingham" actually appeared in an in-universe source, though? As far as I know she's only been referred to as "Shirley Ann Bingham" and "Shirley". Otherwise we'd need to use {{Conjecture}}. Aquanafrahudy 📢 🖊️ 18:43, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't see how it's conjectural. To my knowledge, Artie and Angie Maitland have never been referred to by their full name. This seems a far less controversial decision given it's the name she's credited as. Jack "BtR" Saxon ☎ 18:51, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Here, here, to User:Jack "BtR" Saxon! BananaClownMan ☎ 19:45, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Totally agree with BananaClownMan. The full name can be just a redirect. HarveyWallbanger ☎ 11:25, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

I have to very strongly disagree with the moving of this page. Prioritising episode credits over both promotional material and her actual televised appearances just doesn't make any sense at all. She is never referred to as "Shirley Bingham" except in the credits, which are not in-universe sources, and is only referred to in in-universe sources as "Shirley" and "Shirley Anne Bingham". Aquanafrahudy 📢 🖊️ 15:46, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

We have three editors saying otherwise against just two, so the majority rule, as it stands currently, is in favour of going by the credits. As for why she is never called "Shirley Bingham" in the episodes, it's fairly common to introduce yourself with your full name, even if you don't go by your middle name. Say I introduce myself as "John James Smith" to you, it doesn't mean I go by "John-James"; similiary, until The Giggle, it was unclear if Shirley went by "Shirley-Anne", which is what her introduction indicated, and subsequently users started referring to her as "Shirley Anne" on her page, in the same vein as Sarah Jane using her middle name in conjunction with her forename. As User:Jack "BtR" Saxon has pointed out, having the page name reflect her credited name of Shirley Bingham prevents just confusion, and aligns with other official releases like DVD Bonus Features. BananaClownMan ☎ 16:08, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Discussions don't work using the majority rule, save for certain cases, such as infobox images. They work on arguments, not statements of "I agree with x". See T:FORUM. And whether or not she is referred to as "Shirley Anne" or "Shirley", the point remains that she is not referred to as "Shirley Bingham", and is never referred to as Shirley Bingham, except in episode credits, which are not valid sources for in-universe articles. If you were to present me with a novelisation or some such that referred to her as "Shirley Bingham", then I would feel differently on this matter, but as it stands she is most commonly referred to as "Shirley Anne Bingham" or simply "Shirley", neither of which are "Shirley Bingham". Aquanafrahudy 📢 🖊️ 16:22, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Although I am conflicted on the larger matter at hand, I have checked the novelisations of The Star Beast and The Giggle and "Shirley Bingham" isn't used once, whereas she's called "Shirley Anne Bingham" ten times in the novelisation of TSB and three times in TG, a good deal of those times by the omniscient narrator.

EPSILON^🔎 |📯|📂|📦|📝

17:01, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

While I disagree with User:Aquanafrahudy and their stance against the majority rule when it comes to ending discussions, User:Epsilon the Eternal's evidence does give pause for thought. I suppose the best thing to do for now is to wait until one of her upcoming appearances clears up the matter with how she is addressed, and simply keep an eye out for any pages that mistakenly call her "Shirley Anne". BananaClownMan ☎ 22:14, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Sarah Jane Smith was a very bad example in this discussion because while Classic Who primarily referred to her as "Sarah", New Who, including SJA, consistently referred to her as "Sarah Jane", with only the Doctor nostalgically calling her "Sarah". Danniesen ☎ 22:31, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Furthermore… I have never heard of it being common practice to introduce oneself with the entirety of one's name. At most, to my knowledge, you go with first and last name if you don’t only use first name. Danniesen ☎ 22:34, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

(Slightly off-topic but somewhat related... should "Kate Stewart" be renamed "Kate Lethbridge-Stewart" now that her full name seems to have been reinstated/more prominent in the 60th anniversary specials?) — Fractal Doctor @ 23:32, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

That is a subject better placed on the talk page for Kate Stewart, but for my two cents, given the number of sources that name her Kate Stewart over Lethbridge-Stewart, I would say it best to remain the same.BananaClownMan ☎ 23:39, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

I, for one, side with keeping her at Shirley Anne Bingham. She is consistently referred to with all three names in advertising and it seems to be the way she's referred to by the fandom. Dewinter ☎ 00:42, 14 March 2024 (UTC)