Forum:"Wallace & Gromit (franchise)" or "Shaun the Sheep (series)"?

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Opening

Shaun the Sheep in Santa's sack with the TARDIS on the cover of TV & Satellite Week's 2015 Christmas bumper issue.

I believe this cover artwork constitutes an official crossover between the DWU and… the universe from which Shaun the Sheep originates (and Star Wars, but that's irrelevant here).

If I am correct in this assumption (by all means tell me if I'm not), what should the scope of the crossover page be: just the Shaun the Sheep series by itself, or the Wallace & Gromit franchise as a whole? WaltK ☎ 19:25, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

Is the cover art technically licensed? If so, covering cover art is a whole discussion of its own (perhaps the caption could be taken as a title?), but I believe series pages would be warranted. I can't think of any references to the DWU in W&G itself, but Shaun the Sheep has had a couple, and one might be licensed? Anyway, if it's licensed, I personally think an overview of Shaun the Sheep would be most reasonable, but feel free to disagree. Cookieboy 2005 ☎ 22:01, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

(Oh, also do you know what the car behind BB-8 (assuming I'm remembering its name correctly) is?) Cookieboy 2005 ☎ 22:05, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

It's hard to say. This is also not the only TV&SW Christmas illustration to feature the TARDIS, which we shall probably also get to at some point. WaltK ☎ 22:38, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Hmm, TV&SW issues usually have a copyright thing on the first page for whatever the cover photo is, but the Christmas illustrations just credit the artist. I like to think, if they have the license to cover DW elsewhere in the issue, then that surely means the illustration is "official" too. WaltK ☎ 22:42, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

But would they even need a license? This isn't depicting the TARDIS as a real thing, just a large TARDIS toy amidst other items of merchandise. Surely that makes it a cultural reference more than anything else… Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 22:58, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

True. But then, again, as I've already brought up in one other thread today, we now have a page for this webcast. WaltK ☎ 23:17, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Regardless of if they'd need a license, if they nevertheless did have it, I'd say it would be worth coverage (if it's possible for such an item currently), although whether or not it would be valid is a whole other thing. (However UCP, I think has a case for validity, considering we have another Terrahawks crossover ^[+]Loading...["Merry Christmas 2016 from Big Finish (webcast)","another ''Terrahawks'' crossover"], and the other decorations depict "real" elements of the Terrahawks universe (Zeroids, Cubes) & other Anderson properties (Thunderbird 2)) Cookieboy 2005 ☎ 13:48, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

But Terrahawks isn't a DWU series…? WaltK ☎ 16:11, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

I never said it was, just that it crossed over again later, and that "real" elements of the show's universe (using "universe" in an out-of-universe sense) are also seen as tree decorations (along with an element of Thunderbirds). Cookieboy 2005 ☎ 17:27, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

TV & Satellite Week's Christmas 2017 bumper issue.

I don't know why it never occurred to me to point out: the Christmas bumper issue cover from two years later depicts Santa flying past the actual TARDIS. WaltK ☎ 20:12, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

It should be noted that our Aardman Animations page already covers a Doctor Who reference in Shaun the Sheep itself. It's out-of-universe, though: one of the sheep dressed up as a Dalek. Here's the sceeenshot I was excited to upload around 7 years ago. I'm not sure I'm convinced yet that these references require a separate page from Aardman, but I'm maintaining an open mind.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 20:27, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

There are also some in-universe references from the second movie. Aquanafrahudy 📢 🖊️ 20:43, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Ah, I had no idea about the movie cameos! The Fourth Doctor instinctively hiding from the "Daleks" might suggest it's not another cosplayer?

But that might also be taking the joke too seriously, and it isn't hard to believe a fan has gotten into character and must be convinced he's going mad when the Daleks show up to "face him", so he hides since he isn't the real Doctor. Not sure we can say either way.

(...On the other hand, he really does look look him. And does the Farmer have a working sonic screwdriver? Missing some context.)
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 20:48, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Just posted some screenshots of the references in the film, as laid out below:

• 

  The Third Doctor's sonic screwdriver in Farmageddon.

• 

  Several Dalek costumes in Farmageddon.

• 

  The Fourth Doctor, or a cosplayer, sees the Dalek costumes. (In Farmageddon)

• 

  The portaloo TARDIS in the outro of Farmageddon.

Also, it's available on BBC iPlayer... which makes me wonder if it's eligible for coverage? (Although we may be getting a bit off-topic for an "Advice and Assistance" forum) Cookieboy 2005 ☎ 21:30, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Just added an image from the outro as well, with the portaloo TARDIS in space. Cookieboy 2005 ☎ 21:35, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Artwork doesn't appear to be a crossover, that's a bunch of toys, as per the car being windup, imo. The film also appears to merely be a cultural reference. Which is all fine and dandy. Najawin ☎ 21:45, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Sure, but licensing can be the very thing separating something being a crossover and something just being a cultural reference. The TARDIS showed up in Chelmsford 123, and it was just a cultural reference since it was a non-BBC show and we have no reason to believe it was licensed - if the BBC did something like that in, say, EastEnders, we'd probably have to cover it as a crossover. Cookieboy 2005 ☎ 15:29, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

So does anyone have any further thoughts on this? I feel it's worth noting that since this thread started, it's been found that pages for Wallace and Gromit, A Close Shave, Shaun the Sheep, and Shaun the Sheep (character) can exist already (the last one mainly due to Wonder Chase ^[+]Loading...["Wonder Chase (video game)"], which released after this thread started). I feel that a debate on whether we ought to cover Farmageddon should be had, since it does seem to depict the DWU elements as real, and appears to be licensed at least in its iPlayer release (the main thing that complicates things). (Coverage of the covers may be best tacked in a thread dedicated to covering covers in general) Cookieboy 2005 ☎ 16:18, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Talk:The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (series) should be relevant here, I think. Aquanafrahudy 📢 🖊️ 17:31, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Cookieboy, what exactly do you mean when you say Farmageddon appears to be licensed "at least in its iPlayer release"? WaltK ☎ 18:07, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Oooh! Upon closer inspection of the credits: the estate of Terry Nation is among the Special Thanks. WaltK ☎ 18:13, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Well, my main point was that it was released on a BBC platform, and the BBC have the license to the sonic screwdriver etc. Cookieboy 2005 ☎ 20:12, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Being released on a BBC platform isn't really an indicator of anything. The BBC have British broadcasting rights to plenty of things that they otherwise have nothing to do with. WaltK ☎ 20:28, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

Additional to the Nation estate, Tom Baker, Chris Chibnall and Matt Strevens are all also thanked. This is all interesting evidence for a Farmageddon inclusion debate but I feel discussing it much more here would start to veer us into off-topic territory.

On that note, I'd lean towards Wallace and Gromit being the series page as there have been a couple of references to it in the DWU and it's simply more inclusive with regards to what we could cover (e.g. shared cast) than a Shaun the Sheep series page would be. --Borisashton ☎ 20:41, 11 April 2024 (UTC)