Template talk:Companions of the Thirteenth Doctor: Difference between revisions
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|title = Companions of the [[Thirteenth Doctor]] | |title = Companions of the [[Thirteenth Doctor]] | ||
|titleclass = | |titleclass = | ||
|above = | |above = | ||
|state = collapsed | |state = collapsed | ||
|group1 = | |group1 = Long-term | ||
|list1 = [[Graham O'Brien]] • [[Yaz Khan]] • [[Ryan Sinclair]] • [[Dan Lewis]] | |||
|group2 = Extended single-adventure | |||
|list2 = | |||
|group3 = Single-adventure | |||
|list1 = [[Graham O'Brien]] • [[ | |list3 = [[Grace O'Brien]] • [[Lizzie (The Runaway TARDIS)|Lizzie]] • [[Ada Lovelace]] • [[Noor Inayat Khan]] • [[Dorothy (The Wonderful Doctor of Oz)|Dorothy]] • [[Jack Harkness]] | ||
|group2 = Single-adventure | |group4 = Occasional adventures | ||
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| | |||
| | |||
|group4 = | |||
|list4 = | |list4 = | ||
|group5 = Single multi-adventure story | |||
|list5 = | |||
|group6 = Single adventure seen | |||
|list6 = [[Different (Canaries) |Different]] • [[K9 Mark V]] | |||
|group7 = Unseen | |||
|list7 = | |||
|group8 = Narratively ambiguous | |||
|list8 = [[Hero robot]] • [[Inston-Vee Vinder]] • [[Eustacius Jericho]] | |||
}} | }} | ||
:It would help if you spelled out the significance of, nature of, and justification for your chances? For one thing, ''prima facie'', I don't see why [[Ada Lovelace]] and [[Noor Inayat Khan]] should be moved to "Narratively ambiguous" as opposed to "single-adventure". You don't get much more narratively explicit than Graham, Yaz and Ryan recognising that "they're being replaced" (albeit temporarily, as the Doctor reassures them). --[[User:Scrooge MacDuck|Scrooge MacDuck]] [[User talk:Scrooge MacDuck|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 17:14, November 10, 2020 (UTC) | |||
== Flux == | |||
I think we need a discussion about who is and isn't companion following the appearances of multiple recurring characters in Flux, and this seems the best place for it. So far, the following characters have been added to ''Category:Thirteenth Doctor companions'' or ''Category:Human Thirteenth Doctor companions'': | |||
*[[Bel (Once, Upon Time)]] | |||
*[[Karvanista]] | |||
*[[Inston-Vee Vinder]] | |||
*[[Diane (The Halloween Apocalypse)]] | |||
*[[Eustacius Jericho]] | |||
*[[Joseph Williamson]] | |||
*[[Mary Seacole]] | |||
Can we truly consider all of these to be companions? Characters like Joseph Williamson, Bel and Mary Seacole only met the Thirteenth Doctor in one episode. Williamson and Seacole didn't even stick around for a trip in the TARDIS. We don't consider Charles Dickens a companion of the Ninth Doctor, or Agatha Christie a companion of the Tenth Doctor. Out of these, the only ones I would consider to be companions of the Thirteenth Doctor (in the most ambiguous sense) would be Vinder and (perhaps) Jericho & Karvanista at a push. Jericho (while he spent 3 years with Yaz and Dan) was only around the Doctor for a short amount time and Karvanista spent most of the time on his ship rather than at the Doctor's side. [[User:66 Seconds|66 Seconds]] [[User talk:66 Seconds|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 18:56, 6 December 2021 (UTC) | |||
:: There ''are'' such things as single-adventure companions (e.g. ones who die before they get the chance to properly start travelling with the Doctor). I think Jericho fits that standard — his last words are definitely those of a companion, IMO. | |||
{{quote|[Doctor,] I've lived more in my time with you than I did during the previous two decades. Who has had a life like mine? (…) What an awfully big adventure.|Eustacius Jericho}} | |||
:: Karvanista was a companion of the [[Fugitive Doctor]] — we are told — and I think that in hindsight, this makes his encounters with Thirteen more akin to Sarah Jane in ''[[School Reunion (TV story)|School Reunion]]''. In ''[[The Vanquishers (TV story)|The Vanquishers]]'' there's an explicit discussion of his companion status, and the Doctor herself phrases it as "''Were'' you my companion?" in the past tense. So I'd say he doesn't count as a companion to Thirteen. | |||
| | :: Also agreed that the historical characters shouldn't count here — in ''[[War of the Sontarans (TV story)|War of the Sontarans]]'' the Doctor calls herself ''Mary''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> assistant, so if anything she is a companion to Mary, not the reverse. And she outright tells Williamson to go home in ''The Vanquishers'' because she doesn't want to put history at risk by having her on the adventure; he also calls the Doctor "madam", which is a level of standoffishness which doesn't befit a companion. (That being said, [[Ada Lovelace]] and [[Noor Inayat Khan]] in ''[[Spyfall (TV story)|Spyfall]]'' are definitely single-adventure companions, not to mention [[Mary Shelley]] with the [[Eighth Doctor]], so it's not like "celebrity historical" characters ''can't'' be companions. | ||
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:: Vinder is officially welcomed into the TARDIS, complete with "It's bigger on the inside"-ish moment, so I think he's a companion as much as [[Grace Holloway]] is, even though he then declines to stay around on a permanent basis. He's not (by [[Talk:The Vanquishers (TV story)|apparent consensus]]) a companion in ''The Vanquishers'', but in the abstract I do think he belongs on this template. | |||
| | :: Di and Bel, I have no strong feelings about. <span style="color: #baa3d6;font-family:Comic Sans;">[[User:Scrooge MacDuck|'''Scrooge MacDuck''']]</span> <span style="color: #baa3d6;">[[User_talk:Scrooge MacDuck|⊕]]</span> 21:04, 6 December 2021 (UTC) | ||
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::: I'm going to remove Williamson, Seacole, Bel, Diane and Karvanista from ''Category:Thirteenth Doctor companions''. To me, Bel and Diane feel more akin to the Children of Time e.g. Harriet Jones, than companions in their own right. Karvanista will remain in ''Category:Companions of the Doctor''. Jericho and Vinder will remain as is. Obviously, if anybody has any evidence/reason as to why these individuals should be considered Thirteenth Doctor companions then happy for them to voice it here. [[User:66 Seconds|66 Seconds]] [[User talk:66 Seconds|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 00:21, 7 December 2021 (UTC) | |||
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== A Lack of Differences. == | |||
At the end of [[The Paradox Moon (short story)]][[Different (Canaries)]] now calling herself Mae leaves with the 13th Doctor to have adventures with them. Thus they are a single story companion. After their first adventure no others are given to date. This should not impact this fact. Sibling Different former agent of a Faction which worshiped Paradoxes is most definitely a companion of the Thirteenth Doctor.[[User:Anastasia Cousins|Anastasia Cousins]] [[User talk:Anastasia Cousins|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 21:13, 25 August 2023 (UTC) | |||
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Latest revision as of 21:13, 25 August 2023
Proposed update[[edit source]]
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- It would help if you spelled out the significance of, nature of, and justification for your chances? For one thing, prima facie, I don't see why Ada Lovelace and Noor Inayat Khan should be moved to "Narratively ambiguous" as opposed to "single-adventure". You don't get much more narratively explicit than Graham, Yaz and Ryan recognising that "they're being replaced" (albeit temporarily, as the Doctor reassures them). --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 17:14, November 10, 2020 (UTC)
Flux[[edit source]]
I think we need a discussion about who is and isn't companion following the appearances of multiple recurring characters in Flux, and this seems the best place for it. So far, the following characters have been added to Category:Thirteenth Doctor companions or Category:Human Thirteenth Doctor companions:
- Bel (Once, Upon Time)
- Karvanista
- Inston-Vee Vinder
- Diane (The Halloween Apocalypse)
- Eustacius Jericho
- Joseph Williamson
- Mary Seacole
Can we truly consider all of these to be companions? Characters like Joseph Williamson, Bel and Mary Seacole only met the Thirteenth Doctor in one episode. Williamson and Seacole didn't even stick around for a trip in the TARDIS. We don't consider Charles Dickens a companion of the Ninth Doctor, or Agatha Christie a companion of the Tenth Doctor. Out of these, the only ones I would consider to be companions of the Thirteenth Doctor (in the most ambiguous sense) would be Vinder and (perhaps) Jericho & Karvanista at a push. Jericho (while he spent 3 years with Yaz and Dan) was only around the Doctor for a short amount time and Karvanista spent most of the time on his ship rather than at the Doctor's side. 66 Seconds ☎ 18:56, 6 December 2021 (UTC)
- There are such things as single-adventure companions (e.g. ones who die before they get the chance to properly start travelling with the Doctor). I think Jericho fits that standard — his last words are definitely those of a companion, IMO.
[Doctor,] I've lived more in my time with you than I did during the previous two decades. Who has had a life like mine? (…) What an awfully big adventure.
- Karvanista was a companion of the Fugitive Doctor — we are told — and I think that in hindsight, this makes his encounters with Thirteen more akin to Sarah Jane in School Reunion. In The Vanquishers there's an explicit discussion of his companion status, and the Doctor herself phrases it as "Were you my companion?" in the past tense. So I'd say he doesn't count as a companion to Thirteen.
- Also agreed that the historical characters shouldn't count here — in War of the Sontarans the Doctor calls herself Mary's assistant, so if anything she is a companion to Mary, not the reverse. And she outright tells Williamson to go home in The Vanquishers because she doesn't want to put history at risk by having her on the adventure; he also calls the Doctor "madam", which is a level of standoffishness which doesn't befit a companion. (That being said, Ada Lovelace and Noor Inayat Khan in Spyfall are definitely single-adventure companions, not to mention Mary Shelley with the Eighth Doctor, so it's not like "celebrity historical" characters can't be companions.
- Vinder is officially welcomed into the TARDIS, complete with "It's bigger on the inside"-ish moment, so I think he's a companion as much as Grace Holloway is, even though he then declines to stay around on a permanent basis. He's not (by apparent consensus) a companion in The Vanquishers, but in the abstract I do think he belongs on this template.
- Di and Bel, I have no strong feelings about. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 21:04, 6 December 2021 (UTC)
- I'm going to remove Williamson, Seacole, Bel, Diane and Karvanista from Category:Thirteenth Doctor companions. To me, Bel and Diane feel more akin to the Children of Time e.g. Harriet Jones, than companions in their own right. Karvanista will remain in Category:Companions of the Doctor. Jericho and Vinder will remain as is. Obviously, if anybody has any evidence/reason as to why these individuals should be considered Thirteenth Doctor companions then happy for them to voice it here. 66 Seconds ☎ 00:21, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
A Lack of Differences.[[edit source]]
At the end of The Paradox Moon (short story)Different (Canaries) now calling herself Mae leaves with the 13th Doctor to have adventures with them. Thus they are a single story companion. After their first adventure no others are given to date. This should not impact this fact. Sibling Different former agent of a Faction which worshiped Paradoxes is most definitely a companion of the Thirteenth Doctor.Anastasia Cousins ☎ 21:13, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
