Talk:Regeneration: Difference between revisions

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==Ninth Doctor's First Words==
{{ArchCat}}
Weren't the ninth doctor's fist words simply "Run!" to Rose in Rose?


== Image change ==
While not initially brought up by me, a user believes the image should be updated given the latest regeneration. I personally see no reason to change it other than "it is the latest regeneration visual", but then we never changed it when 11 changed into 12 so such reasoning feels redundant to me. The current also lacks the distracting rotor blocking a portion of the scene. Here's the proposal matched against the current image:


<gallery>
File:Ten_regenerates.jpg|Current image
File:12_regenerates.jpg|Proposal #1
</gallery>


Yes his first words was "Run!" But in talking about regeneration the more fitting quote would be after the shop blew up and Rose invited The Doctor into her flat The Doctor is messing about in the living room while Rose is talking. He then looks in the mirror and says "Still could be worse. But look at the ears." Which could be a comment on his regeneration from the eighth to the ninth he may have been busy locating the transmitter of the Nestine Consciousness that he hadn't had time to look at himself after regenerating. That seems more fitting.
Thoughts anyone? [[User:Snivystorm|Snivystorm]] [[User talk:Snivystorm|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:39, December 26, 2017 (UTC)


==Regeneration posture==
:I think keeping it up to date is a good idea, it shows what it's like now, rather than what it used to be. [[User:Ben_Moore512|BenMoore512]] [[User talk:Ben_Moore512|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 16:20, December 29, 2017 (UTC)
I'm not sure why this was removed. This is a significant aspect of regeneration. While it was not seen in the "original" series, it has been seen as part of the standard process in the revival, and Davies has stated that according to the current "rules" the series follows, this is how TimeLords regenerate normally - and there really is nothing in the original series to contradict this given the Doctor has usually been incapacitated and Romana regenerated off screen. Perhaps a reference to Davies' comments could be added, but we should try to keep things in-universe as much as possible. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 04:55, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
::Not sure of the reason it was removed, as I wasn't the one to do it. However, having read the section, it does feel "removable". Too much certainty is attached to the explanation. There are at least three regenerations — 1-2, 3-4. and 5-6 — which shouldn't have more greatly inhibited the Doctor from standing than the ones we've seen in the BBC Wales production. You can't argue you want to "keep things in-universe as much as possible", then cite RTD as a major rationale. In-universe, there's not a satisfactory reason why absorbing the time vortex would have allowed the Doctor to stand, but simple old age wouldn't. The Ninth Doctor had the most traumatic cause of regeneration of the lot, and yet he stood when others didn't. There is no narrative logic; it's just an artistic choice. It can only be explained in an out-of-universe way. It is interesting to note, however, that all but the Tenth Doctor and Romana II have ended up flat on their backs immediately after the initial act of regeneration, though. '''[[User:CzechOut|<span style="background:blue;color:white">Czech</span><span style="background:red;color:white">Out</span>]]''' [[User talk:CzechOut|☎]] | [[Special:Contributions/CzechOut|<font size="+1">✍</font>]] 14:06, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
::I removed it because there didn't seem to be any in-universe evidence that the posture was important. They never actually said the whether the Doctor was standing up mattered at all. -<[[User:Azes13|Azes13]] 02:35, 4 August 2008 (UTC)


So, does anyone have any in-universe evidence that the position of the Time Lord during Regeneration matters? Or can I just remove it already? -<[[User:Azes13|Azes13]] 16:39, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
::Maybe this image should be used if the rotor is really that much of a problem: [[File:12 regen shot.jpg|thumb]] ([[Special:Contributions/24.205.83.199|24.205.83.199]]<sup>[[User talk:24.205.83.199#top|talk to me]]</sup> 02:32, January 3, 2018 (UTC))
:::The suggested image cannot be used on any in-universe pages because it doesn't have the proper license. As it stands, it can only be used on user pages. [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] [[User talk:Shambala108|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 02:47, January 3, 2018 (UTC)


: As we have seen there throughout the TV series there is no set posture / position for a time lord to regenerate only a life threatening injury or enormous free will. I say move it to behind the scenes (original Series lying down / New Series standing up) or remove it [[User:Dark Lord Xander|Dark Lord Xander]] 06:34, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Even if it could be used, I don't see how it is superior to the current image; the Doctor's back is facing the camera and they have only used a golden lightning-like effect for regeneration once so far while they have used the  golden explosion/burst the most throughout Doctor Who; even the 8th Doctor and now the 1st have regenerated displaying the golden energy. [[User:Snivystorm|Snivystorm]] [[User talk:Snivystorm|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 10:52, January 3, 2018 (UTC)
::::Agreed, [[Tardis:Guide to images]] requires images to be distinct at thumbnail level (this image isn't) and it also says "avoid the ass shot" (this image doesn't). [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] [[User talk:Shambala108|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 13:42, January 3, 2018 (UTC)


== Master=Rainbow? ==
=== Post-fork ===


Umm...has anyone else noticed that when the master regenerated, instead of the usual gold color, the energy coming out of him was rainbowish?[[User:Papayaking|Papayaking]] 01:15, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
Reviving a discussion from 2018, so apologies, but found it interesting. This page covers regeneration as a whole, so might it be worth showcasing different regeneration moments/effects in an infobox gallery? (Those who know me will recognise I'm a big advocate for infobox galleries, as I believe they're a great tool for interactivity and also showing at a quick glance various designs/moments/etc. to new readers and viewers.) I don't think it'd be feasible to put every single regeneration scene in a gallery, but we could perhaps show off some of the notable ones? (In-universe has it ever been explained why some regenerations looked visually different on screen, or not? Curious about this.)


It's just the people who animate it trying to make it look more "realistic" (not quite the right word), and less gaudy. I mean, if you look back at the Ninth Doctor's regeneration, it's pretty gaudy and looks like a pretty mediocre CGI job. [[User:BlueBox|BlueBox]] 02:44, December 31, 2009 (UTC)
Worth also re-asking the question above too - when possible, is it worth keeping the infobox image as up to date as possible, showing the most recent 'traditional' regeneration (ie. 13-14, since 14-15 was a unique take on the process and given its own name/page)? × [[User:Fractal|Fractal]] [[User talk:Fractal|<span title="Talk">•</span>]] 10:36, 8 March 2024 (UTC)


==Tardis==
== Specific pages (and a category) for each Doctor's regeneration? ==
I know that Russell T. Davies said that after the Master regenerated they decided that that was what all regenerations would look like. However, an in-universe explanation for this could be that all regenerations in the new series (including the one diverted into the Doctor's hand) occured in the Tardis (specifically, the Doctor's after it was put into its coral theme)? I know other regenerations have occured in the Tardis before then but if they ever decided to make an excuse, wouldn't that likely be part of it? [[User:BlueBox|BlueBox]] 02:44, December 31, 2009 (UTC)


==Changing gender==
Just a thought. I notice that more and more pages are being made for specific 'events' in the world of Doctor Who.
The possibility was confirmed atlast - Eleventh was worried about it at the end of The End of Time part 2. Someone change it? xD 20:07, January 1, 2010 (UTC)
:: The possibility wasn't confirmed, it was ''suggested''. For a laugh, I might add. :P [[Special:Contributions/95.150.79.142|95.150.79.142]] 22:51, January 1, 2010 (UTC)


==Regeneration like dying==
There's a category for 'Dalek conflicts' and each event in the show gets its own page with a description of who was involved, the location, how the event unfolded, etc. There's a category for 'Conflicts involving the Doctor' which does the same.


The tenth doctor said regeneration felt like dieing - looks like in the new series of the show regenerating is basically death for one incarnation of a doctor while another man is born with the same memories. Someone add it to the 'attitude' section?
I know we have a 'List of causes of regeneration' page, complete with table and brief overview, but I thought it might be worth each regeneration having its own page? The infobox would have an image showcasing the event, alongside a time/setting/location, who was involved, who witnessed the event, etc. The page could then briefly outline events leading up to the regeneration, what the cause was, the immediate aftermath.
: I think it's fair to say that, for the new show, regeneration is basically "instant reincarnation". Which is cool, I like that. Though I think it's ridiculous for him to have said "everything I am dies"... because that's not true. I mean, hey, if it was really dying, how could the Tenth Doctor know what it felt like? And he never hesitates to identity himself with previous incarnations. RTD went a little overboard there, I think. [[Special:Contributions/95.150.81.104|95.150.81.104]] 22:46, January 5, 2010 (UTC)
: Haha. I was just watching the end of Season 3. Here's a great exchange:
:: '''The Master:''' ''Dying in your arms. Happy now?''
:: '''The Doctor:''' ''You're not dying, don't be stupid, it's only a bullet. Just regenerate.'' [[Special:Contributions/95.150.79.37|95.150.79.37]] 21:35, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
If you look at regeneration as another form of reincarnation then the only thing to survive through the changes would be the memories and self-consiousness.


:: In philosophical terms, only the Doctor's accidental properties change. His essential properties -- the things that mean he IS the same man from incarnation to incarnation -- remain the same. And Moffat has made it clear in DW:Confidental that regeneration <u>isn't</u> death. Thankfully, Ten's sudden ''"it's the same as dying"'' shift in outlook for EoT has been discarded as the silly excuse for tear-jerking that it was. As he said to Rose in the CoN special: ''"Rose, it's me. Honestly, it's me. I was dying, to save myself I had to change every cell in my body. But I'm still me"''. Long live the Doctor. [[Special:Contributions/95.150.80.91|95.150.80.91]] 15:37, April 4, 2010 (UTC)
My thinking is... you can read the Wiki page for 'Remembrance of the Daleks' for a complete story overview... but there's also a seperate page for the 'Imperial-Renegade Dalek Civil War' which culminates/happens within it. You can read the Wiki page for 'Genesis of the Daleks' for a complete story overview... but there's also a seperate page for the 'Genesis Incident' which is a specific event in it. 'Day of the Daleks' has its own page, but then there's also a more specific 'Time Paradox Incident' page to accompany it. So why not have pages detailing each regeneration, too?


==Tenth Doctor's Regeneration==
We have a page for 'The End of Time', but why not a small but dedicated page detailing the regeneration specifically? The page would include information about the 'four knocks' prophecy, the Ood's warning about 'your song ending', then Ood Sigma's summoning, the events that lead to Wilfred ending up in the radiation booth, and the Doctor's sacrifice, plus the 'farewell tour' etc.  
Didn't immediately set in? I'm pretty sure it ''did'' and he just held it back for as long as he could. His healing the wounds on his face right at the beginning was part of the regeneration, after all. He wasn't staggering about because of the radiation, he was staggering about because his body wanted to change then and there and he wasn't letting it. [[Special:Contributions/95.150.81.104|95.150.81.104]] 22:46, January 5, 2010 (UTC)


== Humanoid Regeneration only? ==
I just thought, if specific events within the world of the show can warrant their own page, maybe regeneration can be considered monumental enough to warrant detailed pages too? They could be called 'The First Doctor's Regeneration', for example, or more story specific 'The South Pole Cyberman Incident (Regeneration)'?  


In article is said "...up to this point, all the main Time Lord characters' regenerations have remained humanoid."
We already have a page for 'The Doctor's trial (The War Games)', and this could either be expanded to become a 'Regeneration' page, or simply accompany one. That specific Trial at the end of the Second Doctor's life is big enough to warrant its own page, so why not events such as 'The Third Doctor faces the Great One', or 'The Fourth Doctor's Pharos Incident', or 'The Fifth Doctor's Spectrox Incident', etc?


Anyway, sorry for rambling. Just a thought! Worth putting out there as an idea :) [[User:FractalDoctor|FractalDoctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 11:42, 14 November 2022 (UTC)


However according to article [[the Master (Bruce)]] Master occupied some snake-like form (I am nto sure if he regenerated into this form)
=== Post-fork ===


== Second and a Half Doctor? ==
If possible, I'd love to reignite this topic and get others' opinions on individual pages for specific regenerations, for reasons outlined above? :) × [[User:Fractal|Fractal]] [[User talk:Fractal|<span title="Talk">•</span>]] 10:38, 8 March 2024 (UTC)


SMProductions added the Second and a Half Doctor to the First and Last Words. Should he really be there, seeing as he is from a currently unfinished fan-made film? [[User:TemporalSpleen|TemporalSpleen]] 15:12, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
: The pages in [https://tardis.wiki/wiki/Category:Regenerations this category page (I seem to be having trouble with linking it)] seem to be all created roughly from March 2023 onwards, after your initial post, not sure if you're aware of them yet? - [[User:CodeAndGin|<span style="color:green" title="CodeAndGin">CodeAndGin</span>]] | [[User_talk:CodeAndGin|<span title="Talk to me">🗨</span>]] |  13:44, 9 March 2024 (UTC)


==Damaging "Energy" or damage to the Tardis?==
:: Oh! I wasn't aware of them. Thanks :) × [[User:Fractal|Fractal]] [[User talk:Fractal|<span title="Talk">•</span>]] 13:52, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
Folks, yes, the David Tennant regeneration to Matt Smith was extremely damaging... But have we forgotten something?


Remember, 10th Doc just absorbed how much radiation? Now we know from Smith & Jones, that TimeLords can absorb radiation, focus it, and expell it..
== T:CITE compliant citations ==


When was the 10th Doc able to expell all the radiation from the reactor? He certainly absorbed it, and absorbed so much that he was forced to regenerate... But he certainly was contaminated by the radiation, but he didn't seem concerned about it... If he was, why did he go to the Bar? Or get close enough to Wilf to hand him the ticket, etc?
Okay, so I didn't want to jump into editing such a major article like this for fear of accidentally committing vandalism. On [[Forum:General Discussion of the Fork]], [[User:Fractal|@Fractal]] pointed out that the citations on this page are user-unfriendly. [[User:Scrooge_MacDuck|@Scrooge MacDuck]] confirmed that they are explicitly against policy.


He absorbed all the radiation, contained it internally, without considering how it would affect the regeneration. As part of the process of the regeneration all that extra radiation/energy was expelled, damaging the tardis... This may have been one reason that the Tardis locked out the 11th doctor.. It was rebuilding, but also cleaning out the excess radiation...[[User:Bschollnick|Bschollnick]] 17:04, April 9, 2010 (UTC)
I just forked the page into [[User:CodeAndGin/Sandbox1|this sandbox]] to make some of the required edits (I say forked, I copied the source in, I don't really know what I'm doing with the whole Sandbox thing). With the exception of one citation - the one in the paragraph about sex changing in regenerations, I think I've done a decent job but would respectfully like someone to look at my work before I even consider changing the main article. - [[User:CodeAndGin|<span style="color:green" title="CodeAndGin">CodeAndGin</span>]] | [[User_talk:CodeAndGin|<span title="Talk to me">🗨</span>]] |  03:09, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 13:52, 9 March 2024

Archive.png
 Archives: #1, #2

Image change[[edit source]]

While not initially brought up by me, a user believes the image should be updated given the latest regeneration. I personally see no reason to change it other than "it is the latest regeneration visual", but then we never changed it when 11 changed into 12 so such reasoning feels redundant to me. The current also lacks the distracting rotor blocking a portion of the scene. Here's the proposal matched against the current image:

  • Current image

    Current image

  • Proposal #1

    Proposal #1

Thoughts anyone? Snivystorm ☎ 19:39, December 26, 2017 (UTC)

I think keeping it up to date is a good idea, it shows what it's like now, rather than what it used to be. BenMoore512 ☎ 16:20, December 29, 2017 (UTC)
Maybe this image should be used if the rotor is really that much of a problem:
12 regen shot.jpg
(24.205.83.199talk to me 02:32, January 3, 2018 (UTC))
The suggested image cannot be used on any in-universe pages because it doesn't have the proper license. As it stands, it can only be used on user pages. Shambala108 ☎ 02:47, January 3, 2018 (UTC)
Even if it could be used, I don't see how it is superior to the current image; the Doctor's back is facing the camera and they have only used a golden lightning-like effect for regeneration once so far while they have used the golden explosion/burst the most throughout Doctor Who; even the 8th Doctor and now the 1st have regenerated displaying the golden energy. Snivystorm ☎ 10:52, January 3, 2018 (UTC)
Agreed, Tardis:Guide to images requires images to be distinct at thumbnail level (this image isn't) and it also says "avoid the ass shot" (this image doesn't). Shambala108 ☎ 13:42, January 3, 2018 (UTC)

Post-fork[[edit source]]

Reviving a discussion from 2018, so apologies, but found it interesting. This page covers regeneration as a whole, so might it be worth showcasing different regeneration moments/effects in an infobox gallery? (Those who know me will recognise I'm a big advocate for infobox galleries, as I believe they're a great tool for interactivity and also showing at a quick glance various designs/moments/etc. to new readers and viewers.) I don't think it'd be feasible to put every single regeneration scene in a gallery, but we could perhaps show off some of the notable ones? (In-universe has it ever been explained why some regenerations looked visually different on screen, or not? Curious about this.)

Worth also re-asking the question above too - when possible, is it worth keeping the infobox image as up to date as possible, showing the most recent 'traditional' regeneration (ie. 13-14, since 14-15 was a unique take on the process and given its own name/page)? × Fractal • 10:36, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Specific pages (and a category) for each Doctor's regeneration?[[edit source]]

Just a thought. I notice that more and more pages are being made for specific 'events' in the world of Doctor Who.

There's a category for 'Dalek conflicts' and each event in the show gets its own page with a description of who was involved, the location, how the event unfolded, etc. There's a category for 'Conflicts involving the Doctor' which does the same.

I know we have a 'List of causes of regeneration' page, complete with table and brief overview, but I thought it might be worth each regeneration having its own page? The infobox would have an image showcasing the event, alongside a time/setting/location, who was involved, who witnessed the event, etc. The page could then briefly outline events leading up to the regeneration, what the cause was, the immediate aftermath.

My thinking is... you can read the Wiki page for 'Remembrance of the Daleks' for a complete story overview... but there's also a seperate page for the 'Imperial-Renegade Dalek Civil War' which culminates/happens within it. You can read the Wiki page for 'Genesis of the Daleks' for a complete story overview... but there's also a seperate page for the 'Genesis Incident' which is a specific event in it. 'Day of the Daleks' has its own page, but then there's also a more specific 'Time Paradox Incident' page to accompany it. So why not have pages detailing each regeneration, too?

We have a page for 'The End of Time', but why not a small but dedicated page detailing the regeneration specifically? The page would include information about the 'four knocks' prophecy, the Ood's warning about 'your song ending', then Ood Sigma's summoning, the events that lead to Wilfred ending up in the radiation booth, and the Doctor's sacrifice, plus the 'farewell tour' etc.

I just thought, if specific events within the world of the show can warrant their own page, maybe regeneration can be considered monumental enough to warrant detailed pages too? They could be called 'The First Doctor's Regeneration', for example, or more story specific 'The South Pole Cyberman Incident (Regeneration)'?

We already have a page for 'The Doctor's trial (The War Games)', and this could either be expanded to become a 'Regeneration' page, or simply accompany one. That specific Trial at the end of the Second Doctor's life is big enough to warrant its own page, so why not events such as 'The Third Doctor faces the Great One', or 'The Fourth Doctor's Pharos Incident', or 'The Fifth Doctor's Spectrox Incident', etc?

Anyway, sorry for rambling. Just a thought! Worth putting out there as an idea :) FractalDoctor ☎ 11:42, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

Post-fork[[edit source]]

If possible, I'd love to reignite this topic and get others' opinions on individual pages for specific regenerations, for reasons outlined above? :) × Fractal • 10:38, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

The pages in this category page (I seem to be having trouble with linking it) seem to be all created roughly from March 2023 onwards, after your initial post, not sure if you're aware of them yet? - CodeAndGin | 🗨 | 13:44, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
Oh! I wasn't aware of them. Thanks :) × Fractal • 13:52, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

T:CITE compliant citations[[edit source]]

Okay, so I didn't want to jump into editing such a major article like this for fear of accidentally committing vandalism. On Forum:General Discussion of the Fork, @Fractal pointed out that the citations on this page are user-unfriendly. @Scrooge MacDuck confirmed that they are explicitly against policy.

I just forked the page into this sandbox to make some of the required edits (I say forked, I copied the source in, I don't really know what I'm doing with the whole Sandbox thing). With the exception of one citation - the one in the paragraph about sex changing in regenerations, I think I've done a decent job but would respectfully like someone to look at my work before I even consider changing the main article. - CodeAndGin | 🗨 | 03:09, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

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