Talk:River Song

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Revisiting the split pages decision

Almost ten years ago, it was decided that River incarnations were to be all merged under a single page. However, more recent decision led me to propose we split the River pages again into new incarnations. They are as follow:

• Put simply, River Song is a name that applies only to her third incarnation. It's as wrong to call the baby Amy gave birth to, or the young girl that was Amy and Rory's childhood friend "River Song" than it would be to call the incarnation of the Doctor who fought in the Time War by "Twelfth Doctor", "the Curator" or "War Curator", even though these are all names used by future versions of him. In fact, this was one of the reasons I argued so hard that the Eleven's incarnations absolutely could not have a single page a few years ago. The same surely applies to River.
• As has been done with several Time Lords recently, splitting their incarnations into a single page allows better coverage and readability.
• Naming the majority of pages regarding this character would be extremely easy (something which was argued otherwise in the original discussion). It's very explicit that River/Melody had three incarnations:
  • From birth to the little girl from The Impossible Astronaut we see regenerating on the streets of New York
  • Mels Zucker, who grew up alongside her parents
  • River Song her third and final incarnation
• Now, that only leaves the problem of whether to use "Melody Pond" to her first incarnation or the overall page. As Mels also uses the name on her deathbed, and River Song also uses her real name on A Good Man Goes to War (TV story) to reveal her true identity, I'd vote for keeping Melody Pond for the overall page, while using "little girl" for the first incarnation (as she was credited as such).
• Mind you, it wouldn't be the first time we use credits/conjectural names for a Time Lord splitting, as per Renegade Time Lord (The Eleven). And, like that page, the bad term also happens to describe the exact subject we're talking about, as River/Melody was also the Impossible Astronaut.

As always, feel free to make any further suggestions and/or edit my sandbox pages. OncomingStorm12th ☎ 16:52, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

I am in support of this split. I agree that Melody Pond should go to the overall page as it was used by all incarnations to a degree. Bongo50 (aka Bongolium500) ☎ 18:52, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

I don't have a problem with the split, and I agree that Melody Pond would be best for the overall page name. LauraBatham ☎ 07:47, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

I also think this is a good idea, but why not use Melody Pond for both the main page and her first incarnation? "Little girl" will have to be dabbed anyway, so why not use Melody Pond (The Impossible Astronaut) instead? Danochy ☎ 12:39, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

I think 'Little Girl' is better for the incarnations navigation template. It accords both with the credits of the episode, with dialogue to an extent (the characters do call her "the Little Girl" for lack of a better term at some points in the script of The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon), and with how non-Wiki-editing fans would usually speak of her if discussing River's incarnations. Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 12:50, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

With the template, sure, but templates needn't use just page names. The name "Melody Pond" is more accurate than "little girl" in that regard, especially in light of her other appearance (albeit as a Flesh clone for most(?) of her on-screen time) where her identity as Melody is quite important. Also I just realised that her first appearance is actually Prequel (The Impossible Astronaut) which rather throws a spanner in the works for that dabbing. Danochy ☎ 13:05, 29 July 2021 (UTC)