Talk:Loose Ends 5: Ian Memoriam (short story)

Conundrum

This short story presents a rather unique little conundrum that I don't believe I've ever seen in any other story to date in terms of validity.

The main attraction is, of course, the "Scenes Unseen" portion, depicting a clearly in-universe extension of The Power of the Doctor. But "Where Are They Now?" focuses on a character from an invalid source, Harry from An Adventure in Space and Time.

How do we approach this? WaltK ☎ 20:44, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

I think there are two approaches here. The first approach would be to say that the "Where Are They Now?" is a serious attempt to tie into the DWU, and so validate AAiSaT via rule 4 by proxy. The second would be saying that it is not a serious attempt to tie into the DWU, and call it invalid. Perhaps the two sections ought to be split into their own separate pages for every instalment, being functionally separate stories, which would mean that we could keep the "Scenes Unseen" portion of this valid while invalidating the "Where Are They Now?". We could, of course, do this and still say that the "Where Are They Now?" section is valid. Since they're released under a single title, I would lean towards saying it's the same story, and I would also lean towards the "Where Are They Now?" being a serious attempt to tie into the DWU, though I'm willing to be persuaded on both counts. Aquanafrahudy 📢 🖊️ 21:09, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Dammit dammit dammit dammit dammit dammit dammit. Are we on earth just to suffer?

This should be in a forum thread Forum:Inclusion debates, about whether we invalidate this or validate AAiSaT. Dammit. Najawin ☎ 21:23, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I was going to say this should be in a forum thread, but forgot. Aquanafrahudy 📢 🖊️ 21:26, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Just had it pointed out to me that this is actually likely a reference to publicity photos of Tom Baker they took shortly after he was announced as the Doctor outside the television centre, and so there's likely not a 4bp argument after all, and it can be safely invalidated. Which is sad. Aquanafrahudy 📢 🖊️ 21:38, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Possible solution: we just slap an invalid tag into the section for "Where Are They Now?" and not at the top of the article, so that part of this story can be invalid. But this absolutely will require a forum thread as it will change a lot of precedent.

I will also say, for the record, I absolutely do not support splitting Loose Ends instalments into pages such as Where Are They Now? (DWM 606 short story).

EPSILON^🔎 |📯|📂|📦|📝

21:50, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

What if we just ignore the connection to AAiST? As in: converting Harry (An Adventure in Space and Time) into Harry (Loose Ends), or whatever, and making it a valid page with the main body covering this story, and the AAiST info being moved to BtS. WaltK ☎ 21:55, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

I think if we are to treat the Harry bit as valid then we have to validate AAiSaT. Aquanafrahudy 📢 🖊️ 22:30, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

A: This should be a forum thread, really.

B: This just isn't true. You need both to infer specific authorial intent in this bit, and you need to assume that there aren't other problems in AAiSaT (spoiler: I think there are). Najawin ☎ 06:02, 19 July 2024 (UTC)