User talk:CzechOut

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Hey all :) If you need help with anything, please ask, below. The page tends to fill up quickly, so I've got a lot of archives. I try not to archive discussions that are ongoing, but sometimes it unfortunately happens. Gimme a second shout if I've not answered your question!

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Re: Suspension and Disbelief

My copy of Short Trips: Destination Prague has it as Dusan without the little dots. Shambala108 ☎ 04:57, January 25, 2013 (UTC)

Temporary admin

I defer to you knowledge with regard to tech related issues. I'm sporadically on the Community Wiki. As long as it is only a temporary adminship position to assist with the re-colourisation process. Thanks for keeping me informed. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:42, January 25, 2013 (UTC)

Video needing posting

So there's a behind the scenes video for A Big Hand for the Doctor (short story). I can't post it myself, because I think you once told me that that was an admin's job; and I can't link to it, because of our rule on linking youtube on pages. All I can do is tell you that it's called "Eoin Colfer Doctor Who eBook - A Big Hand for the Doctor". OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 16:19, January 25, 2013 (UTC)

Also, 86.151.81.144 is a vandal. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 00:08, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

I can't help but notice you ignored my first post -- It was slightly confusing, so I'm gonna try it in a different way.

"I want to add a behind-the-scenes video to a page, how do I go-about doing that?" OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 01:12, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, so I'm gonna ask a third time... How do I add a video to an infobox? OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 05:53, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Message Wall

Hey Czech. I've recently noticed that when someone has posted on the forums and it appears on the activity feed, when you click on their name under the forum name it takes you to their message wall instead of their talk page.

I know it maybe not be anything major, but would it not seem at bit more handier and sensible for it to go to their talk page instead? MM/Want to talk? 01:19, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

Videos

I don't often check videos' file usage information. Videos wise I usually only check to make sure they're valid and that they're in keeping with our Video policy. --Tangerineduel / talk 13:25, January 26, 2013 (UTC)

No reason

Accident caused by the ranaming of the page Volva to Mercedes. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 04:39, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

No, I thought I had with the discovering of a Volvo logo, but it was actually a Mercedes logo. I cleaned up my mess. Only one link I had to change. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 05:06, January 27, 2013 (UTC)

Image Size

Okay, I'll get to it. Do you have a list of my uploaded image, perchance? Cult Of Skaro Here.|Communicate here. 18:55, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Ah, good point. Cult Of Skaro Here.|Communicate here. 19:01, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

All images fixed. Cult Of Skaro Here.|Communicate here. 19:27, January 28, 2013 (UTC)

Variable suggestion

I suggest we add a "Other Doctors" or perhaps "Doctors" variable to Template:Infobox Story. This is useful not only for Multi-Doctor stories but also for stories that don't really have one "main" Doctor, like Prisoners of Time or The Sirens of Time, all of which don't really feature one "main" Doctor. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 03:32, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

Well, like I said before, for one it's great for stories that don't really have a "main" Doctor. Also I should note that Multi-Doctor stories aften get rather cluttered "featuring" boxes due to the half-a-dozen charactors that usually appear. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 04:55, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

The Sirens of Time (audio story), Destiny of the Doctors (video game), Heart of TARDIS (novel), Peri and the Piscon Paradox (audio story), The Four Doctors (audio story); and any other stories that do not feature any main "Doctor"; as well as just any Multi-Doctor story. Note the yellow triangle on each of these pages means that whatever was done to put multiple variables in the 'Doctor' is breaking the template. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 05:13, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

Re:Source Check

The names come from Doomsday, they are refered to as "Cyber Units Ten-Six-Five and Ten-Six-Six" by the Cybermen, just before the confrontation. --MrThermomanPreacher ☎ 22:40, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

It was while Dr. Singh had his brain waves extracted by the Cult of Skaro. There are transcripts of this episode online. --MrThermomanPreacher ☎ 22:58, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

OverAnalyser edits

Argh! I thought they were told, warned, threatened by you and me and learnt what to do and what not to do. Not to sound lazy, but wouldn't it be easier just to rollback / delete all their edits as their information falls into the N:RW category? Though I will of course begin a comb through as try to thin it down, rollback and undo whatever he, she, they have done thus far. --Tangerineduel / talk 15:30, January 31, 2013 (UTC)

Not quite a fine toothed comb, but I have gone through all OA's article edits and edited out everything that looked suspect or questionable. --Tangerineduel / talk 16:34, February 1, 2013 (UTC)

Big Finish covers

Evelyn Smyth's current image is a picture from a comic strip, which doesn't give a very good idea of Evelyn's appearance. I tried to replace this image with a nice clear photo of her from the cover of A Town Called Fortune, but the edit was reverted by Ottelspy, who said that we can't use Big Finish covers to illustrate characters. I feel like a casual user would much rather see the photo than the drawing. What exactly is this wiki's stance on BF covers? Cult Of Skaro Here.|Communicate here. 04:57, February 1, 2013 (UTC)

Dates and Tenses

Okay. Thank you for pointing that out. I hadn't noticed that. That is now added to my list of things to fix in date articles. Also, can you please join me at the forum I started to state your personal opinions on all my suggestions (some of which were actually yours anyways)? No one's really responded yet and your input is needed. Thanks. SmallerOnTheOutside ☎ 20:49, February 1, 2013 (UTC)

Also, I checked the page and the only verb in present tense was in the lead. (I mostly just moved the original sentence and made it into a full sentence - I need to check for these mistakes next time). Is this what you're referring to? You wrote "There's no reason for the out-of-universe portion of these articles to be in the present tense," but, and I'm looking at the article as I'm typing this, I can confirm there are no verbs in the present tense in the Behind the Scenes section (nor generally in any other BTS sections). It is all in past tense, until you are referring to things like "who would play Sir Charles Summer in TV: The War Machines...." If you are, these aren't present tense. I'm pretty much using that conjugation (forgot what it's called...) to mean the future of the event but the past of today. I see nothing in present. Sorry. SmallerOnTheOutside ☎ 21:12, February 1, 2013 (UTC)

What Links Here

You never answered my question in the day of the year thread. So I'll ask it here: how does one go about doing one such WLH search. I've been wanting to do this for a long time, but I don't know how. I doubt it'd be an admin-only feature. It doesn't seem logical. So... how is it done? SmallerOnTheOutside ☎ 02:17, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

Never mind, I looked it up on Google and found that it's done here. Thanks anyway. SmallerOnTheOutside ☎ 02:17, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you so much, Czech. I've already been using Category:Maintenance for a while but I have no idea of the existence of Special:SpecialPages, which is so much clearer and has so much more information. It also never occurred to me to edit that tool bar at the bottom. I will now fiddle around there and add what's needed. Once again, thank you so much. You're making me feel so welcome, despite the fact that I only just joined about a month ago. Your tips are much appreciated. SmallerOnTheOutside ☎ 02:46, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

RE: Page Deletion

Sorry it took me so long to respond. Wikia wasn't letting me edit anything for almost 20 minutes. Some sort of glitch. Don't worry, I'm not really upset. Annoyed would be a better word. Not quite aggravated, even. Annoyed at the fact that I wasted an hour and a half working on a useless article on the words of OS that I "don't have to ask." I had assumed that, from all the times he's been here, he knows Tardis policy much better than I do and wouldn't make that kind of mistake. Annoyed that I could have spent that hour and a half on something productive, like continuing my day article clean-up, which I had taken a break from to do this. I obviously won't make the same mistake again, though. As much as I dislike it, this is the way we learn. SmallerOnTheOutside ☎ 08:34, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

RE: Deletion of user pages

God, I seem to be the only one posting here. I've posted here way too often. While I agree that a picture from Gone with the Wind will most likely have nothing to do with a Doctor Wjo wiki, please acknowledge that it's not exactly for an article; it's for my user page. Which, if you'll take a look at it, you'll find, is very much a parody of a user page. The GWTW image was there for humour purposes only as was the first picture taken from one of Lemony Snicket's false dark portraits - which is exactly the feel I wanted to portray, as well as the picture of the cow. Trust me, I check, no sort of copyright bounds to the picture of the cow. I'd read the user page policy and the user image policy, and, while I didn't find then very specific and they failed to answer a lot of my questions, my user pictures were not against the rules if those policies. Please refer me to the piece of policy that I'd missed so that I can remedy the situation and renter the pictures in a legal fashion according to the rules of this wiki. Do you like my new name and feel, though? --The Doctor Detective Arch Architectural Bishop Baker Intern Inspector (aka. SmallerOnTheOutside). Now memorize that and contact me. 03:10, February 4, 2013 (UTC)

User images, signature, name, and just about everything else you don't like about me

Considering your general objection to just about everything I did yesterday, including my new signature, my new name, and the images used on my new user page, there's only one simple solution: revert everything I did to my account to what it was Saturday, before I had brilliant ideas and decided I should touch my account up with a little humour, which, apparently you don't appreciate. Please don't read this as an attack, though; I'm just not in a good mood and annoyed. The amount of general disapproval I've been receiving from you lately certainly isn't helping. So I'll just go back to being boring SmallerOnTheOutside, a user no longer unique, with a name and page exactly like everyone else's. Apparently, my individuality isn't wanted here. Well, this is the last time you'll be seeing this signature... --The Doctor Detective Arch Architectural Bishop Baker Intern Inspector. Now memorize that and contact me. 04:31, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

Day of the year articles

Okay, fine, second to last time. I'll change my signature later. Anyways, I've noticed that my phone hasn't been buzzing with emails saying that the day of the year articles have been deleted. So, just in case, I'm leaving you a message here, so you'll notice right away when you return. I finished adding delete tags on all day articles without in-universe information several hours ago. See the thread. Whenever you read this, please run the bot. Don't forget to tell me when you do so at the thread, so I don't touch the articles then, or at least be a couple steps behind the Bot. Thanks. Come to think of it, shouldn't I be posting this on your bot's page? Whatever. The same person will read it nonetheless. --The Doctor Detective Arch Architectural Bishop Baker Intern Inspector (aka. SmallerOnTheOutside). Now memorize that and contact me. 08:19, February 5, 2013 (UTC)

Quick category question

Hi. Could you drop in at Thread:121616 and answer a quick question about a category issue? Thanks. —Josiah Rowe ☎ 05:50, February 6, 2013 (UTC)

8 May

The date is not actually stated in Planet of Fire itself but it is given in The Reaping. The publisher's summary says that Peri met the Doctor and Turlough on that date. --GusF ☎ 09:36, February 6, 2013 (UTC)

I just double checked it and it's actually 9 May. Sorry about that. --GusF ☎ 09:41, February 6, 2013 (UTC)

Image size

Sorry for not checking the file size of the Molly SUllivan pic. I have reuploaded a 100kb version. Cult Of Skaro Here.|Communicate here. 00:15, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

Personal Attacks

I don't really see how that can be seen as an attack, or even rude, but, obviously, I'll refrain from doing things like that in the future. "This is your only warning" gave me the chills, I must admit. Can you please give me other examples so that I can better understand what you consider to be an attack? I would like to preferably stay away from getting banned. Thanks. SOTO ☎ 04:07, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

I was not planning and will not say anything like "well you didn't mention that." Here's my official statement: You can charge me on anything on Tardis:No personal attacks or any other wiki policy, regardless of the specific examples you give me. I will not pretend like personal attacks are limited to the examples you give me, and allow you to use any and all Tardis rules against me. I am now asking for a couple specific examples of how I infringed the "no personal attacks" policy - not for use as a reference if you ever decide to ban me - so that I know specifically what I've been doing wrong so that I won't do it again in the future. I can hardly refrain from not making the same mistakes if I don't even know what those mistakes are. And, by the way, I'm actually pretty insulted that you thought I'd sink to the level of using your examples as leeway if you ever ban me. You know, I do have dignity and sympathy for others.

SOTO ☎ 04:36, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

Okay. I'll do my best. I read the discussion on whether or not he should be banned. Gave me the shivers. By the way, the reason I actually said "Ima" later on was because I mostly wrote that post before I read his plea for me not to use that nickname. Then, when I got an email that he'd responded, I copied my post and reloaded the page. Then, when I was about to click reply, I realised that the text I'd written beforehand included the nickname, and, instead of just replacing it, I opted to lighten the mood a bit (and make it a bit less formal - it was getting a little too formal for my tastes) and put it in brackets. It was simply light humour, which I have now been warned to stay away from. A bit boring and paranoid, in my opinion, not to be able to include any humour in fear that it'll insult someone, but I don't have much choice in the matter. Anyways, I will really try hard not to "attack" people. But please try to inform me once in a while when I start to get close to the border. (I sometimes have trouble recognising what other people find rude, as I personally don't apply the concept of rudeness to other people myself. It's a bit foreign to me.) Thanks,

SOTO ☎ 05:17, February 9, 2013 (UTC)

No message alerts source

I saw the notice that anonymous users aren't getting message alerts reliably. Could you point me to where that information is on Community Central or Wikia Help or wherever it might be? I need to notify the other admins of some wikis I'm on about this issue. Thanks. —RRabbit42 (leave a message) 05:30, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

Master of Spiders

The User:Master of Spiders is causing trouble. He has started an edit war at Totem (short story), despite the heated debate that had been going on at Talk:Totem (short story); as well as made personal attacks at me; questioning my Intelligence as well as stating on my talk page that "I see you live in Versailles. Perhaps your understandings of English adjectives may be a bit fuzzy?", a very clear personal attack. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 16:38, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

That is not true. I stated that there were several errors with the article("Totem"). I quoted the relevant passages from the story. OttelSpy25 insisted that what I had quoted were "typos", and chose to simply dismiss various text as it didn't suit his/her interpretation of the story. After he/she made personal attacks against me(calling me "feeble"), I asked him/her to simply quote the passages from "Totem" that backed up his/her position. He/she refused. I edited the article, as per the text I had quoted, but he/she tried to start an edit war. I then noticed he/she is from Versailles, and suggested(it was never meant as an attack of any sort) that he/she didn't fully understand certain aspects of the English language. This was deemed to be "making fun of his/her ethnicity". Odd, as I have one French grandparent myself. He/she has yet to provide any definite evidence to back up his/her position. Master of Spiders ☎ 17:28, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Inaccuracies. My position is that your information provided shows that it is the 8th Doctor. You have shown 0% proof that this isn't the Eighth Doctor, you're strongest argument being "The Doctor had blue eyes, not grey blue eyes!" When I failed to understand how that had to do with anything, you suggested that I could not speak english. Also, I'm from Versailles, Ky.

Also note that although Spiders continued to continuously change the page to fit his opinion; ignoring the discussion occurring at the same time where multiple people told him that he was wrong. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 18:13, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

It wasn't "multiple" people. It was two people. You being one of them. Also, my points are laid out on the talk page, and go far beyond what you state here. Master of Spiders ☎ 04:36, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

My talk page is not the place for your bickering. You've each had one statement and one rebuttal. Now stop it.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍  15:40: Tue 12 Feb 2013

Croatoan

That IS how it's spelled in real life. The synopsis from BF got it wrong. Cult Of Skaro Here.|Communicate here. 13:50, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

You don't understand. It is NOT spelled Croatan in real life. Croatan was an Indian tribe. It is spelled Croatoan. BF spelled it Croaton incorrectly. For proof that it is spelled Croatoan, see [1]. I don't know where you got Croatan from, but it's incorrect. Cult Of Skaro Here.|Communicate here. 16:04, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

And here's the page for the Indian tribe. [2] Cult Of Skaro Here.|Communicate here. 16:19, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

No, they're pronouncing it Cro-a-to-an. And the wikipedia articles should also provide ample proof. Cult Of Skaro Here.|Communicate here. 16:13, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

And also, the misspelling in the synopsis is Croaton. Cult Of Skaro Here.|Communicate here. 16:19, February 12, 2013 (UTC)

Photo's

I acknowledge the warnings and give up on this Wiki, far too many confusing rules about images. Clone gunner commander jedi _talk

I understand the rules, they just seem odd. I guess I'm just not used to a Wiki with such strict rules, I really should know better than to repeatedly break the rules/policies. I am truly sorry for all the wasted time I've caused you or any other Administrator with having to remove policy breaking images I've uploaded. Clone gunner commander jedi _talk

Hi, I'll try to edit the images to link the artist name. I'm still not very used to the wiki editing.

I have read too that all must be in British English and not in American. I'm not British nor American: I'm Spanish. I'm not native English speaker and sometimes I don't know very well if something is from American English or British English, but I'll do my best!

Big Finish trailers

Do these fulfill fair use/fair dealing? I've re-read Wikipedia' fair use page, and the fair dealing page. The latter mostly because I read through BF's BF's Terms and Conditions page which is fairly specific about their content "The Information may not be used for any other purpose including, publication, reproduction, or transmission without the express written permission of BFP" and it being exclusive jurisdiction in English Courts.

This is I guess no different from all the other stuff we've got on the site, but with all the other content we're using it to provide analysis / criticism. But with the trailers just being within the infobox, I'm just concerned this is a step outside of using the covers as identification.

Or am I just reading too much into it and worrying about nothing? --Tangerineduel / talk 15:49, February 14, 2013 (UTC)

F.A.B. That was a very fast reply from them. --Tangerineduel / talk 12:56, February 15, 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Totem (short story)

Yes, I will admit that is quite ironic, how I was going off topic and wasting space; I was, in a sense, completely going against what I was saying. Anyways, I know you left them messages, but they just kept on going. So I just left them a reminder, as nothing was helping. I'm not sure exactly what the rules are, so I don't know if off-topic comments on talk pages should be deleted. If there is no such rule, there really should be. Anyways, sorry I went against specifically what I'd said in the comment by writing the comment. Weird...

One more thing: actually looking at T:DISCUSS (which I pretty much referenced in my comment), I realise it should be updated. It talks about blogs. We haven't had blogs for years. I know I'm able to edit it, but it feels wrong doing it. SOTO ☎ 03:15, February 15, 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Totem

Yes, I realise that my behavior was out of bounds. I sorta busted a gaspet after he put an emparessing six-or-so paragraphs on my discussion and not the page itself. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 03:19, February 15, 2013 (UTC)

Word order

Is a sentence structure like "They returned him to Hollywood 1926 to collect the Terronite Transference machine", "He once again encountered the Krillitane, in Worcester, 1140" and "He saved Adelaide, Mia and Yuri and took them back to Earth 2059" a normal way of rendering locations and years and I'm just brain farting, or is it actually improper and awkward English? (the full context, if it helps, is this version of the Tenth Doctor page). -- Tybort (talk page) 15:52, February 15, 2013 (UTC)

Individual humans

I see the bot's removed all instances of Category:Individual humans. If the page is newly uncategorised because of this, where would it go? Just Category:Individuals? -- Tybort (talk page) 22:38, February 15, 2013 (UTC)

Sig

Signature fixed. Sorry for any complications. I just wanted some different element in my sig. Also, once again, take a look at T:DISCUSS. It talks a lot about blogs, which we haven't had in years. Please revise it. One more thing: if I'm looking through and I see typos (I've seen many before), am I allowed to fix them? It feels weird, considering it's the policy. --SOTO ☎ 01:15, February 16, 2013 (UTC)

Are you telling me I seriously have to go to the Panopticon to get rid of rules about the long-abolished blogs? Does that even merit discussion? The rules no longer apply. I'm asking only so I know, not in annoyance or anger or anything like that. I'm curious: we really need to have a discussion about this? --SOTO ☎ 01:39, February 16, 2013 (UTC)

Hey CzechOut, i'm working right now on a project to improving the article of "The Doctor" (הדוקטור) on the hebrew DW wiki. i have some problem, now, with the photo on the template. i see that in the article about The Doctor in the english wiki, there are 11 photos for each incarnation in a slideshow, and i think it could be really great if i could do it in the hebrew wiki as well. You might tell me how to do it? Thanks! :D Puchplimmirdeyslithin ☎ 19:40, February 16, 2013 (UTC)

Tenth Planet

Really? Okay... Not even if they put out a DVD cover? OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 03:11, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

Reference Categories

Is there already a list of sort of standard categories for References in the TV episodes? I've been reading through anyway, and my OCD and I are happy to put that little bit of organization in, or compile it myself and then apply. I've been looking, but I'm rather new to wikia and I haven't been able to find one in the help files for TARDIS.ComicBookGoddess ☎ 13:31, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

Hee hee. Hence the "asking first" part. To clarify, I'm not talking about structure that would add categories of any type. I'm talking about the unlinked headers that organise the reference section of at least the TV pages. I don't know about other media, not because I'm saying they're not important, but because I haven't read/listened to the media listed on the other pages so I don't have anything to add at this time. :)

The Reference section of the standard article structure for a TV episode is sometimes sub-categorised, but it seems to be a bit random in application - most are, but some aren't separated out at all (The Web Planet (TV story)) and some are sub categorized but the choices of subcategory seems too specific - Ice Warrior is a sub category in The Monster of Peladon (TV story) while others episodes might lump everything we learn about any species under Species. I couldn't find anything indicating style in this section. The regular category tree (which is pretty awesome) does get quite a bit too specific for something like this and since these headers aren't linked as a style thing you're also not looking them up as you type them. If there's already a guide I can't find, I'll happily apply it, but if there isn't one, I'll gladly compile and, of course, submit it to the group for approval before putting it into place. ComicBookGoddess ☎ 15:35, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

`{{update}}`, pronouns, etc...

Got it. Sorry. --SOTO ☎ 14:14, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

(Real life) Thanks for letting me know about those two policies. I actually added the pic so that the viewer can make the comparison, and make deductions, themselves. This obviously no longer applies anyway, as it's not confirmed that it's that particular painting. --SOTO ☎ 17:31, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

Assessment of vandalism

You should consider making deletions impossible for regular users, then. It wasn't very clear. There was even the option to "inform an admin" or something like that. I honestly had no idea, under the circumstances. You need to make it more clear so that future users don't make the same mistake. If possible... --SOTO ☎ 19:29, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

Actually, that was not an attempt at an excuse; it was, rather, an actual valid suggestion, which I do sincerely hope you take into consideration. I was not aware that I needed to specifically acknowledge what you said on my talk page. Apparently, I do. Here it goes:

Now that I know not to, I acknowledge that I will never again delete someone else's discussion posts.
Before I acknowledge that I will never use the word "vandalism" again - which I will, don't worry - I would like to know why. Yes, looking at T:VAN (which you should have sent me to), the post didn't actually fall under "vandalism," but rather under something like "off-topic post," which is what I meant, using to the word "vandalism" in a broader sense than is apparently used in this wiki. Now I'm not saying that I didn't make the mistake; what I am saying is that I've now read through T:VAN and actually know our definition of vandalism now. If you explain yourself, and still stand by your position that I should no longer use the word "vandalism," then I will obey. But, what I personally think would be more suitable is that I cannot use the word "vandalism" outside of the bounds of the Tardis definition. Every time I use the word, I'll check T:VAN to make sure it applies. I personally think it's a bit harsh that, because of one small incident and one small mistake, which I have learned from, I'm banned from anything related to vandalism. I can no longer report vandalism? Still. It's your decision in the end, and I'll go with whatever it is you decide.

--SOTO ☎ 22:37, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

Okay. Thanks for the response. Understood. I will, as of now, no longer report vandalism. I will probably feel the need to in the future, but I won't. --SOTO ☎ 22:56, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

Non-admin deletion of forum posts

I'll bring it up in its own section, so that you can specifically accept or reject it. Or tell me that it's technologically impossible. I suggest that we make it impossible for non-admins to delete forum posts not made by themselves. I understand that, on talk pages, all users have access to editing all posts, but it would be completely impossible to disallow people to edit there. If possible, I think it would be a good idea, especially considering that, according to policy, we can't delete them anyway. It's just further reinforcing policy, and making sure that no one in the future makes the same mistake that I did. Please consider and respond, if only with a simple blunt "no." Thanks, --SOTO ☎ 23:03, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

I can't argue with your logic. But I'm not suggesting it to resist the urge to delete posts, or anything like that. I simply honestly wouldn't have known had you not told or had I not just happened to pass by T:VAN. I'm positive everyone, including me, can "restrict themselves." But I think getting rid of the feature altogether will eliminate future mistakes like mine. I acknowledge that the mistake was mine, and not the software's, and take full responsibility, but I still think that getting rid of our ability to delete posts will help remind us, or inform us, that we're now allowed. Judging by your responses, though, it seems like, technologically, for some reason, this ain't as easy as it sounds. I'm sure you've had instances of newbies adding videos, but yet you haven't gotten rid of the possibility in the software; only forbidden us from doing it. I have a feeling my suggestion will never be implemented. --SOTO ☎ 23:33, February 17, 2013 (UTC)

Chilling choice of words, but okay. I guess that's fine by me. You won't see me deleted posts again! --SOTO ☎ 00:11, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

Nerve gas page

Sorry to bother you with this, but I'm not terribly clear on how to go about fixing this. An unregistered user recently created a page for Nerve gas, which is an incredibly short and non-descriptive stub of an article. I wasn't sure if it should be marked for deletion or expansion - I don't know enough about how it related to the DW universe to expand it myself - and then I realized I'm not entirely sure how to mark it as either. I defer to your judgment. TARDIStraveler ☎ 19:03, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

Day of the year pages

I'm unfortunately extremely busy today. Tomorrow, however, you can expect me to be back on the project, this time working at full speed. I'm currently on 21 October, meaning I still have around 2 months and 10 days. Assuming I have as much time tomorrow as I think I'll have, I should be able to finish the preliminary clean-up tomorrow - at most, the day after. I think we should possibly wait until I do a quick check on WLH, though, to make sure we're not missing in-universe info where there currently is nothing. I'll post here and on the discussion page once I'm finished stage two. I think it would make stage one easier if you didn't split them up just yet. --SOTO ☎ 23:15, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

Out of curiosity, once we create the real world pages, will we create a subcat, perhaps Category:Real world days of the year (subcat of Category:Days of the year)? Or will we just include both the in-universe and real world pages in the same category? I know this is a minor detail, but I figured I'd bring it up as I'm finishing up my preliminary clean-up. I'll be finished November and December really really soon. I'll let you know when I'm done. --SOTO ☎ 22:11, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

Experiencing display format issue

Not sure where to go about it, but I'm editing in safari on an iPad and I've had some issues with oddly overlaying display of a certain table and occasional overlap of images and the first line of text under a header. I've some screenshots and I'm not sure if it's something tat I can fix, if it's just this particular wiki, etc. Where should I ask this? ComicBookGoddess ☎ 03:18, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

Here they are. The first problem appears with several pages but not all of them. I'm sure you'll recognize the episode page on the first one. I'm very amused that the second problem occurs on the Tables page, btw. On any pages it appears on, the page may appear to begin formatting correctly, as in the 4th image, but then reverts to the 2nd/3rd image pattern. Finally, the last image shows you what my edit page looks like - both in Chrome on my PC and Safari on my iPad.

Display issue - picture overlaps text - Safari, iPad
On Tables page, table overlays text block - Safari, iPad
Box overlaps block text on user talk page template - Safari - iPad
Contrast image - box does not overlay while loading but when finished does - Safari - iPad
Not even sure what the button under preview says - Safari - iPad

ComicBookGoddess ☎ 04:49, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

Ok - Checked out the T:TABLE page, and my usertalk page, and they're both still showing the exact same issue, with the same 1/2" or so overlay. (It's kind of a minor production to move the screen shots around to somewhere I can post them, so I won't unless you absolutely need them.) ComicBookGoddess ☎ 05:49, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

Here you go:

T-TABLEScreenshot0100.jpg

More recent screenshot, same table overlay issue - Safari on iPad
Screenshot of table overlaying on UserTalk Template page

ComicBookGoddess ☎ 06:07, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

Ok, feeling better then. Maybe it has to do with the part of the code regarding the expansion of the box when you show/hide topics - remember from my original shots that while it's loading on my screen, for a short time it loads with the proper compressed dimension then once it loads and hides the specific topics it gains that 1/2", after which it stays that way. Not sure why even the full screen view on the iPhone (and I checked with my iPhone 5) doesn't show it. ComicBookGoddess ☎ 07:51, February 19, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for adding the gallery tabs, I just didn't have the knowledge to fix it myself. In any case, the tables look good on my iPad display now. I've started editing to fix some of the picture/text overlaps that I showed in the first screencap. It's not just the text length. It seems that the infoboxes over on the right make the text column so narrow that sometimes when somebody just drops a picture in at the top of the plot section it gets pushed down indiscriminately. You have to try a few different placements - and publish, the preview doesn't pick up the boxes. Anyway, thanks for fixing what you could fix and if I see anything else, I'll let you know!ComicBookGoddess ☎ 07:57, February 20, 2013 (UTC)

iPad display issues

Note, I've had to add gallery tags around ComicBookGoddess' images as the large images were making leaving a message problematic.

I used the same pages that ComicBookGoddess used in their example and on the Tardis:Tables page the "Table Basic" table is crashing into the Tardis Manual, see File:Tardis Tables Safari iPad.jpg

And on the Carnival of Monsters page the only issue I'm seeing is the Contents box not sitting underneath the text. Instead it's in the middle of the text, image here; File:Carnival of Monster Safari iPad.jpg --Tangerineduel / talk 05:07, February 20, 2013 (UTC)

Toolbar

Okay, I may be being really stupid, but I recently changed from Chrome to Firefix and now I cannot open up my toolbar along the bottom of my page at all - meaning I can't access all my links I have there - unused images, special pages, what links here etc.

Is there anyway to fix this? MM/Want to talk? 16:12, February 20, 2013 (UTC)

Never mind, I just appeared after I restarted it. I should have check that first. MM/Want to talk? 16:14, February 20, 2013 (UTC)

.ogg

I'm trying to upload various BF trailers in .ogg format, but when I try to upload, it says that ogg doesn't match the detected file format. Do you have any idea how to fix this, if it';s possible? Cult Of Skaro Here.|Communicate here. 16:48, February 20, 2013 (UTC)

et al and etc

While you're on your grammar pursuit can you divert for a moment to et al and etc and this edit to the Dalek page. I've seen these replacements elsewhere by this just grabbed my attention.

From what I know/recall et al shouldn't be used in this instance (or any instances (maybe) on this wiki when citing stories) as it's used when citing multiple authors of a single source like for something from The Sixties you could go (Howe, et al 1993) and then you have a reference list at the end of the text (if in this instance using the Harvard Referencing System).

As for etc, again I don't think we should be using it for citations as it's more to do with running lists of things, for which you need to know something of. Using it in a citation of stories doesn't help unless you're actually familiar with each of those stories as you read the article. --Tangerineduel / talk 15:30, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

Sweepstakes

Greetings, I'd like to ask permission to post a message in the forum here about a giveaway Wikia is offering right now. The sweepstakes runs until the 28th of this month, and we are giving away two Paranormal Activity 4 DVDs every day until then. I know this wiki really has nothing at all to do with PA4, but this giveaway is limited to residents of the UK, and therefore we're trying to find ways to get the word out to more UK users. Being a BBC series, Dr. Who seemed like a good subject matter to shoot for. Here is the text I would be adding - short and to the point:

***ATTENTION UK HORROR FANS***

Still don't have the new Paranormal Activity film in your collection? You're in luck!
Wikia has a sweepstakes running through February 28th for our fellow fans across the pond!
We're giving you 2 chances per day to score your very own copy of Paranormal Activity 4! Enter soon, we only have a limited number of prizes to award...
and when they're gone, they're gone!

CLICK HERE to enter now!

(Remember, to qualify for this giveaway you MUST currently be a Resident of the UK)

Please let me know if you'd be willing to allow this post, obviously it could be deleted on the 29th to avoid clutter. Thank you for your time!

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/xraydeltaone/images/b/b2/Siggy4.png @<staff/> (profile)•(talk)•(email) 22:40, February 21, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! :)

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/xraydeltaone/images/b/b2/Siggy4.png @<staff/> (profile)•(talk)•(email) 18:44, February 22, 2013 (UTC)

Error in moving

I tried moving Saurian (Mondas) to Saurian (The Cybermen), but I think the first time I tried the database glitched or something. Any time afterwards and it refuses permission. -- Tybort (talk page) 15:54, February 22, 2013 (UTC)

Academy?

Can I direct you to Time Lord Academy and the rationale for merging the page. It's something that needs clearing up and I don't have the knowledge on the subject to make a decision. --Revan\Talk 23:04, February 22, 2013 (UTC)

Great stuff, thanks for getting things cleared up! --Revan\Talk 20:39, February 23, 2013 (UTC)

Honourifics - [[Jack Harkness|Captain Jack Harkness]] or [[Captain]] [[Jack Harkness]]?

I have seen a great variety here. We have articles for things like "Dr" and "Captain," which might be considered useful links, as you can find out more about the honourific. But yet, half the time, you see people using things like [[Owen Harper|Dr Owen Harper]], instead of [[Dr]] [[Owen Harper]], and [[Eddie Connolly|Mr Connolly]], instead of Mr [[Eddie Connolly|Connoly]]. Which do you think should be considered correct? If there's an obvious answer, you should address it at your new Board:The Time Lord Academy. If not, we should start a discussion about it at the Panopticon. If there's a conclusion, it should probably be mentioned at T:HONOURIFICS. --SOTO ☎ 06:57, February 24, 2013 (UTC)

DWM issues

Sure I'll take a look through and sort them out – that is I'll set all the sub-pages back to covering each year based on cover dates rather than any other method.

Already though I have a question for you regarding the intros you've written. They all seem to share a phrase similar to this "was pulled from British newsstands on 23 January 1991" on DWM 169. The other similar statement I've seen so far is as stated on DWM 181 that "remained current through 25 December 1991".

The former example suggests that there was a reason for it being "pulled" from newsstands, rather than it just no longer being current. Pulled actually suggests to me it being something that was forced, suggesting that the newsagents were forced to pull the magazine because... of something.

I know what you mean, because we've had this discussion somewhere about the differences between cover date and release date or where ever.

I will of course change the main Doctor Who Magazine article to make the concept of cover date clearer. But I'm wondering if you're able to do a batch bot run to change your intros from "pulled from British newsstans" to "remained current on British newsstands until" or something similar to make it not sound as serious as "pulled from newsstands". --Tangerineduel / talk 15:06, February 24, 2013 (UTC)

Upcoming Plans

Hi!

I curate and cultivate entertainment-related content for Wikia, and wondered if you all had anything special planned for the 50th anniversary or the show's return in March. Would you mind letting me know, so that I can ensure we promote it as widely as possible? And, of course, let us know if there's anything at all we can help with.

You can contact me via my talk page or via email at [email protected].

Thanks!

Brian<staff /> 23:10, February 26, 2013 (UTC)

RE:Rename

Do I actually have to confirm that I got it? I usually do. Anyway, once I'm here: understood, I will not make the mistake again. --SOTO ☎ 22:58, March 3, 2013 (UTC)

Chevron

Have you considered removing that chevron image that sits below the contribute button in your header? On any other Wiki this wouldn't matter, but you've made Tardis Data Core look so fantastic already, it seems worth perfecting. :p -Revitalizer ☎ 01:00, March 4, 2013 (UTC)

Colourised images

Those aren't colorized. They're color images taken during filming. Cult Of Skaro Here.|Communicate here. 04:57, March 5, 2013 (UTC)

GOR problem

I didn't realise that my edits had to less than 24 hours apart, unfortunately. As I said on Mini-Mitch's talk page, I assumed that it was some sort of problem due to last year being a leap year. Rather disappointed I have to admit as I was less than a month off. Not sure if I'll bother trying to earn the other words as it's a case of been there, done that. Thanks for explaining it to me anyway. --GusF ☎ 13:33, March 5, 2013 (UTC)

Category - Clothing

Did I accidentally create a Category named Clothing? If I did, was there something I could have done to undo this? ComicBookGoddess ☎ 23:58, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

DPL Error

You closed the thread a bit quickly. If you'd waited, I could have told you that I've been getting the message for at least the past 3 days, I just didn't have time to upload a screenshot. ComicBookGoddess ☎ 05:41, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

By coincidence, I had just happened to need to restart, from the power button, with my desktop, anyway, including having to ditch Chrome twice and reload. I even switched from desktop mode to windows 8 mode and back. I went to my iPad, turned it off, turned it on (the full apple off and on, not just the sleep mode), cleared the history, cleared the cookies, so I'm not logged in there, and I still am seeing the exact same DPL problem. ComicBookGoddess ☎ 06:09, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

Screenshot here: See Gallery Below ComicBookGoddess ☎ 06:22, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

You got me there. Cheap image editing app hung and I had to force the shut down. However, the iPad shut down normally and restarted. Screen shots show the same issue.

Now, z-cars is interesting: See Gallery Below

OK - Back again with your Parser Hooks and Special:Version caps. See Gallery Below And verified: Safari looks the same as Chrome. Double checked, Help is the same on both as well.

(Thanks for the help, I need to pause as it's getting on 2am here. I might be able to grab another shot or two tomorrow morning, but I have 12 hours of driving things with flashy lights and sirens scheduled tomorrow and can't upload from there.) ComicBookGoddess ☎ 07:08, March 8, 2013 (UTC)

See Gallery Below Ok, two days on, I've rebooted the computer twice, cleaned out caches on both machines, looked at the page without being logged in and today the help screen still displays as on the right. I addition, opened T:PUNC and THAT is as on the left. Still help. :( ComicBookGoddess ☎ 18:36, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

See Gallery Below Here's the Parser extensions shot. I've also added a shot from my iPad to show you the issue looks the same there. (urrrg. forgot sign.) ComicBookGoddess ☎ 21:06, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

See Gallery Below I feel like I'm on a scavenger hunt. :)

1 cache-v25-ASH

3 Primarily editing from USA EDT timezone. 2AM local tonight we go to DST.

Oooh, that's a good one. Right now I'm using the same connection (day off and all that). I do edit from work (both wifi and celldata) when I'm not running around scraping people off of the ground, but I can't remember if I've accessed the help screens from there. No celldata signal in my little valley, maybe I can get one at dinner (which I hear that I should probably call teatime). ComicBookGoddess ☎ 21:33, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

See Gallery Below Ah, I have an M-Cell signal with my iPhone 5, not sure if that's actually routed differently. Two shots from that. The mobile site shot is about how well that format would ever display on that screen. ComicBookGoddess ☎ 21:54, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, my. I haven't laughed this hard in quite a while... Yeah, that's about right. Browsers, ambulances, and wheelchair vans. If you want something weird to go on, just ask me to use them.... See Gallery Below ComicBookGoddess ☎ 22:07, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

The Plot Thickens: Minding my own business, looking for a policy link, when these two screenshots happened. See Gallery Below Within seconds of each other. Cleared my cache, went back, still doing it. Gimme a few and I'll get the two you just asked for. ComicBookGoddess ☎ 23:29, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

See Gallery Below OK. Went to Memory Alpha and logged in, then went to TARDIS:HELP and logged out.

Monobook shows it properly - take a look.

At this point, I'm just glad I never installed Safari on this machine. --ComicBookGoddess ☎ 23:42, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

See Gallery Below Yup, sure thing. --ComicBookGoddess ☎ 23:55, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

I see it fixed in iOS and fixed in Chrome. YAY! --ComicBookGoddess ☎ 00:34, March 10, 2013 (UTC)

I've the screenshots in a gallery so they don't mess up lower posts.

DPL Screenshot, Windows 8v6.2b9200, Chrome 25.0.1364.152, 06:22, March 8, 2013 (UTC)
DPL - Z-Cars, Windows 8v6.2b9200, Chrome 25.0.1364.152, 07:08, March 8, 2013 (UTC)
Special:Versions, Windows 8v6.2b9200, Chrome 25.0.1364.152, 07:08, March 8, 2013 (UTC)
parser hooks sshot, Windows 8v6.2b9200, Chrome 25.0.1364.152, 07:08, March 8, 2013 (UTC)
DPL Screenshot, Windows 8v6.2b9200, Chrome 25.0.1364.152, 18:36, March 9, 2013 (UTC)
T:PUNC showing DPL error, Windows 8v6.2b9200, Chrome 25.0.1364.152, 18:36, March 9, 2013 (UTC)
Parser Extensions, Windows 8v6.2b9200, Chrome 25.0.1364.152, 21:06, March 9, 2013 (UTC)
Help Page error - Safari in iOS 6.1.2, 21:06, March 9, 2013 (UTC)
Sandbox Screenshot, Windows 8v6.2b9200, Chrome 25.0.1364.152, 21:33, March 9, 2013 (UTC)
Sandbox Screenshot, Safari in iOS 6.1.2, 21:33, March 9, 2013 (UTC)
Mobile Site, Help, iPhone 5 iOS 6.1.2, 21:54, March 9, 2013 (UTC)
Help file, Windows 8v6.2b9200, Chrome 25.0.1364.152, 22:07, March 9, 2013 (UTC)
T:RED, Windows 8v6.2b9200, Chrome 25.0.1364.152, 23:29, March 9, 2013 (UTC)
T:OVER-WIKIFY, Windows 8v6.2b9200, Chrome 25.0.1364.152, 23:29, March 9, 2013 (UTC)
Memory Alpha, Logged in, Windows 8v6.2b9200, Chrome 25.0.1364.152, 23:42, March 9, 2013 (UTC)
Help file, Logged out, Windows 8v6.2b9200, Chrome 25.0.1364.152, 23:42, March 9, 2013 (UTC)
Help, Monobook, Windows 8v6.2b9200, Chrome 25.0.1364.152, 23:42, March 9, 2013 (UTC)
Logged Out, Loaded with Shift-F5, Windows 8v6.2b9200, Chrome 25.0.1364.152, 23:55, March 9, 2013 (UTC)

--ComicBookGoddess ☎ 16:18, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the thanks. There still a minor issue. You said that to fix any pages remaining with DPL errors, it just needs to be edited and saved, right? Unfortunately, most of the ones that I'm running into are locked. Could I compile a list as I run into them and put it somewhere? --ComicBookGoddess ☎ 04:47, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

Bots

Okay, sorry, I was just saying a possible way. I don't really know enough about them to make a declarative statement, so I just suggested it. So the bot would not work? It would definitely be a hassle to do it all by hand... --SOTO ☎ 05:29, March 10, 2013 (UTC)

Got it. I'm sorry. I'll ask you specifically on your user talk page next time. --SOTO ☎ 19:58, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

One word response: okay. Short and sweet... --SOTO ☎ 20:16, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

Gum

Okay, this was my well thought-out and complex post I meant for the thread on Gum, but uh... I broke that one with my quote thing... uh...

Anyways:

"What you don't seem to grasp is that it doesn't really matter what they call themselves.

The evidence isn't just "They call themselves the Tribe of Gum". They very precisely quote the events of An Unearthly Child, citing thing Ian did to their tribe. I doubt you realize this, as you haven't read the comic. Furthermore, not only do they have the same names as the members of the tribe in Child, they also have the exact same appearances. Look at ol' beardy at the top there, exactly like the original Hug or whatever his name was. I doesn't really member what they called themselves, they could've just as well went up to the Doctor and said "we represent the lolly-pop-guild" and it wouldn't have made any difference. There's still enough evidence to show that they are trying to be the Tribe.

Granted, I completely support your theory of "we can't difinativley say that this is them." Your point of "Robots and clones all exist in the DWU" is very strong and sound; as well as correct.

It is not correct, however, to say "we can not acknowledge that they are in anyway connected." Especially not in an out-of-universe context. Want to say that they may not be the tribe and we should wait before we state that it's difinativly them? Fine. Want to wipe all info suggesting that it may be them? Not fine. There is a strong difference.

Furthermore, on an out-of-universe page, like Hunters of the Burning Stone, it's perfectly fine to say that the two are meant to be the same. "The Tribe of Gum" is a well known nickname for the tribe outside of the show, so it's clear that they were defiantly meant to be the tribe in some fashion.

Thus, as I suggested above, there is no need to hold back this information. (Also note that there are these all-powerful floating gold-alien things that make the idea of moving the tribe entirely feesable. It makes more sense in the story than you would think.)"

Yeah, so uh... That's that then. Oh, and uh... ... Uh... Bye. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 23:07, March 11, 2013 (UTC)

Minor template updates

I have two minor reports regarding templates that need to be updated. The first, Template:Maintenance, needs switching in the text from "Tardis Index File" to "Tardis Data Core," to reflect our new name. The second, Template:Doctor_Who_Wiki/Television, aka. the Randomiser, needs the episodes from series 7 of Doctor Who added - Asylum's there, but the rest haven't been added yet. I'd normally just note these tiny errors in the template talk pages, which I did, but, since template talk page edits don't show up in WikiActivity, they'd probably go unnoticed for a long time. Thanks. --SOTO ☎ 01:45, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

Audio pages

Hi! I have a quick question. Does the spoiler policy cover pages like Big Finish Doctor Who audio stories and The Companion Chronicles? I can't really tell from reading the policy; these articles do have spoilers on them, in the form of titles, Doctor, and companions, but there is no spoiler tag at the top of the page. Thanks! Shambala108 ☎ 03:15, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Like you said, the titles can be spoilers, especially if they name the villain, and the pages also include which Doctor and companions are in each story. I know we don't put future episode titles on tv story pages, so that's why I wondered if the same thing applied to the audio pages. Thanks! Shambala108 ☎ 05:02, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

RE:Honourifics question

It's been a while since the question, so I'm opening a new section. Anyway, the reason that I would prefer [[Dr]] [[Owen Harper]] over [[Owen Harper|Dr Owen Harper]], [[Queen]] [[Nefertiti]] over [[Queen Nefertiti]] and [[Professor]] [[River Song]] over [[River Song|Professor River Song]] is simple:

It's usually much easier for it to be separate. Less typing, as shown above
The real reason: people then get linked to either Dr (Doctor) or Professor or any other title and they can learn about that title. Same reason as any other link. I would settle for Dr at least being used on Owen Harper's page, so that they can find it by clicking on Owen. While generic titles like Mr and Mrs won't get linked, it'll look nice of we keep a consistency

I know this must seem trivial to you, but it's been bothering me for a while now. What are your thoughts, if any? --SOTO ☎ 13:49, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Causality

I think you should already know that Blinovitch Limitation Effect is more typical of my work, or you would have noticed something wrong previously. Causality was an anomalous and poorly reviewed product of a caffeine fuelled burst of insanity whilst researching a much more careful rewrite of another page while channeling the spirit of the Tenth and Eleventh by listening to episodes when I should have been sleeping after working too many hours of early to late overtime over the weekend. It's not my habit to produce anything like that for this wiki.

Of course, I was thoroughly over-excited by the realisation that there is overwhelming narrative evidence for the idea that the Doctor is actually still a creature of linear causality.

I won't be attempting touching it again, but I'd advise you agree on and put something there. At the very least there are two in universe mentions of an in-universe noun, by the Eighth Doctor in audio and Amy Pond in television. To leave it empty is asking for trouble.

As for the conflation of causality and the causal nexus, that's real world science, on the level of a definition of the terms. A causal nexus point is to causality as a coordinate is to geometry. Based on this, perhaps you'd rather add the two references to causality to the causal nexus page and set up a redirect?

Thank you for saving the text on the talk page, I'll edit, expand, and place it in the Howling where it belongs.

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