Talk:Anthony Williams

Summer Falls

The foreword for the newly released version of Summer Falls gives a brief bio of Amelia Williams as an author, mentioning that she lives in New York with her husband Rory and her son Anthony. Would this affect whether or not Anthony Williams is considered a canonical part of the DW universe? TARDIStraveler ☎ 17:23, October 4, 2013 (UTC)

Whatever the case, he's now been mentioned in WC: Rory's Story as well, so this page will need to be reworked to have a focus on the information from valid sources. Danochy ☎ 23:48, April 11, 2020 (UTC)

I see no reason why the afterword in Summer Falls shouldn't be valid. We already treat the contents of the book as the in-universe work of fiction that it is, so why not include the information about its in-universe author also? WaltK ☎ 01:18, April 12, 2020 (UTC)

I completely agree. I've been trying to get Summer Falls as the story in the 'First Mentioned In:' part of the infobox. I'm not even sure why this warrants a discussion. New Series Adventures are a valid source, and the 'about the author' segment is within the front and back cover, so surely it's on the same level as the rest of the stories within that anthology. Heck, I'd try and get the 'about the author' section it's own wiki entry.

Epsilon the Eternal ☎️ 00:18, April 14, 2020 (BST)

You see, there is a bit of a procedural question. It is my understanding (though I have not read the book yet) that the Introduction of Summer Falls constitutes a full-on story. If this is so, the precedent would be for covering the About the Authors section as a brief "foreword" to that story, rather than a story in its own right. On its own merits, it's not really a story, and though that is a policy which I do not personally condone, only narrative sources are allowed. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 23:44, April 13, 2020 (UTC)

Personally, I think anything intended to be in-universe, narrative or not, should be included. Otherwise, where would Liberty Hall stand? It's a mini-sode, but it's an in-universe interview with the Brigadier. But as that doesn't have a narrative, by the wiki's standards it shouldn't be included, yet it is.

But even if the afterword in "Summer Falls" is ignored as part of the Whoniverse, it should still be referred as the story Anthony was first mentioned in. Actually, why isn't "P.S" considered valid? I know the BBC weren't anle to film it due to lack of actors, but it not only got made into a video, it had linking narration by Arthur Darvill, and now, since Rory's Story has acknowledged Anthony, shouldn't both P.S. and the afterword from Summer Falls be considered valid? Both now have a valid confirmation to Anthony, so why not include them?

Epsilon the Eternal ☎️ 01:18, April 14, 2020 (BST)

I also think anything in-universe should be valid, but you and I are both bound by current policy until a thread in the forums successfully overturns the old rule. Though for the record, "a man interviews the Brigadier" is a narrative; it's a series of events happening within the DWU, even if it doesn't have a conventional narrative structure.

For some reason (but again, you and I can't just decide to change this because we don't like it), it was decided that invalid stories wouldn't appear in infoboxes about valid characters; hence The Curse of Fatal Death isn't mentioned as an appearance of Tersurus in that page's infobox, and things like that.

But again, while this About the Authors section can't really be called a narrative, it may be valid as part of a (valid) narrative. So we need some hard facts to pinpoint precisely what narrative that is, to know which title to put as the actual first mention in the infobox. Introduction seems like a likely candidate. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 00:27, April 14, 2020 (UTC)

Personally I think that we do ourselves and our readers a bit of a disservice by disregarding publications with information about the DWU intended as 100% factual and official by the BBC and their licencees simply out of a preference for how it's written. Regardless, all a "narrative" really is is telling a story. A few sentences about Amy's life is hardly the most sophisticated story, but it is a story. My question is, what we consider it part of: Summer Falls, Summer Falls: Introduction or its own separate thing? Toqgers ☎ 01:28, April 14, 2020 (UTC)

Rather infuriatingly, I've checked both versions of the book on Google Books, and I've found no mention of Anthony. I'm not sure if it's me missing it somehow, or if it's not actually in there, so we need somebody with a physical copy to check. Hopefully it won't just invalidate this whole discussion....

Epsilon the Eternal ☎️ 02:15, April 14, 2020 (BST)

It's there alright, as can be seen in just the Amazon preview. Be sure you were checking the anthology Summer Falls and Other Stories, not the earlier "solo release" of Summer Falls as a novel. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 01:23, April 14, 2020 (UTC)

Adopted?

I'd argue that Anthony was very much implied to have been adopted in Rory's Story. Rory described him as "coming home" in a week to "me and your new mum", which sound more like a reference to adoption than a description of birth. Danochy ☎ 00:50, April 12, 2020 (UTC)

Yeah I agree it's heavily implied, but I didn't say so in the main body because he doesn't say so explicitly. Toqgers ☎ 00:57, April 12, 2020 (UTC)

It was established in Asylum of the Daleks that Amy could no longer bear children due to what happened to her at Demon's Run, so he's definitely not biologically Amy's. I also feel it incredibly unlikely that Amy would be up and about painting rooms so soon after giving birth, or that they wouldn't have simply bought Anthony home from the hospital with them after. WaltK ☎ 01:12, April 12, 2020 (UTC)

"Your new mum" might be rather telling, though. The source does not say anything about adoption or foster care or any specific system or process by which Amy would become his new mother. But that line does, I think, tell us that (as Rory sees it, anyhow) Amy was not already Anthony's mother at the time of his birth.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 01:00, April 14, 2020 (UTC)