Talk:List of titles that reference other works

Recursive references

How do we deal with stories that reference DWU titles that are already references? Arguably The Two Irises or The Two Jasons are references to The Two Doctors moreso than to The Three Doctors, even as The Two Doctors was itself a reference to The Three Doctors… What should we do? Footnotes? List them twice?

Actually, there's already a non-DWU example. A Comedy of Terrors: reference to Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors — or to the Vincent Price film actually called The Comedy of Terrors?

Then there are the references to Doctor Who-related non-fiction. (Which pose their own puzzle besides. What Has Happened to the Magic of 'Doctor Who'? is currently wedged in the general "non-fiction" table but that hardly seems ideal…) The Doctor's Tale evokes, yes, the segments within the Canterburty Tales, which the setting bears out; but to a Whovian it evokes RTD's own riff on the title format in The Writer's Tale. The two things called Lost in Time are at some level Lost in Space jokes, but there's also the seminal missing episodes collection to think of… --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 01:15, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Not sure what's with the placement of What Has Happened..., as that one is definitely fiction. It's a parody of Doctor Who fans, culminating in a Doctor Who letter from 2063 involving all sorts of wacky things.

EPSILON^🔎 |📯|📂|📦|📝

02:29, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

The tables are sorted by medium of the thing being referenced, not of the referencer. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 04:24, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

I think this is fairly simple. If the work references a particular rendition of the title, that is the work we should say it is referencing. With an explanatory footnote, of course. We are already doing this for The Three Doctors and The Five Doctors on this page. I think this is an extension of the "for the sake of simplicity" rule given in the lead, albeit with a somewhat different outcome. There are cases which warrant duplication, such as Snow White and the Seven Keys to Doomsday, which references both Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs and The Seven Keys to Doomsday in a portmanteau of titles. As for The Doctor's Tale, I'm not sure we have any evidence that The Writer's Tale was even considered when naming the story? It never even crossed my mind. Danochy ☎ 08:13, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Some interesting cases

How would we deal with The Vardon Horse and The Trojan Dalek, clearly they reference the Trojan Horse, but that is a term that comes much later than the works they are referencing. Furthermore there is no one work which features the horse that we could say is being referenced.

Is AUDIO: The Bonfires of the Vanities a reference to the 1497 event or the 1987 novel? Danochy ☎ 11:48, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

There's also AUDIO: The Elysian Blade, which references the Elysian Fields. Perhaps we could have a new section for mythological or folkloric allusions? Danochy ☎ 12:18, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

PROSE: Twilight of the Gods / Twilight of the Gods / COMIC: Twilight of the Silurians may be a reference to Ragnarok or maybe to Götterdämmerung? Danochy ☎ 12:33, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

AUDIO: Shadow of Death is a Biblical reference. Danochy ☎ 12:50, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Interplanetary Rescue

I’m not sure Interplanetary Rescue ^[+]Loading...["Interplanetary Rescue (comic story)"] should count for this - it’s a Thunderbirds crossover story whose title references International Rescue, who are featured in the story itself. This is like if every Dalek story we covered was listed as a reference to The Daleks ^[+]Loading...["The Daleks (TV story)"], in my opinion. Cookieboy 2005 ☎ 13:41, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

That makes sense. I'll go ahead and remove it. LegoK9 ☎ 21:32, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Titles should be intentional references

Only include stories if we have reason to believe the title is an intentional reference. I'm removing a few entries:

• I highly doubt the 1991 short story Future Imperfect is a reference to the 1990 Star Trek TNG episode "Future Imperfect". Unless there's an homage in the story that I am missing?
• I highly doubt The Light at the End is a reference to a novel about vampires that barely has a Wikipedia article. "The light at the End of the tunnel" is a common phrase.
• I don't see any connection between Fugitive of the Daleks and Fugitive of the Judoon.

LegoK9 ☎ 21:47, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

I agree with the ethos, but Fugitive strikes me as a genuine one unless proven otherwise. "Fugitive of the [Classic Doctor Who Monster]" is a weird, arguably-grammatically-iffy phrase which had no presence at all before Fugitive of the Judoon; and Fugitive of the Judoon was a huge, huge deal. I think a new "Fugitive of the…" after it should be assumed to be riffing on its title format just as much as something called "Remembrance of the Sontarans" or whatever should be understood as a reference to Remembrance of the Daleks unless proven otherwise. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 22:08, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, while it sounds generic, Fugitive of the Judoon seems to be the definitive version of that title and it seems a likely reference point. The point on Light at the End is fair, though the vampire novel in question was a highly influential bestseller, it's not just some random book. Future Imperfect seems to have been the title for three separate works from 1990-1992, and Marc Platt probably was watching Star Trek. But yeah, they're all a play on Future perfect tense, so hard to say for sure. Danochy ☎ 22:22, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

What about Prisoner of the Judoon and Prisoner of the Daleks? (Not to mention Prisoner of the Ood.) I have no reason those are intentional homages to each other. Is Terror of the Sontarans an homage to Terror of the Autons? [Blank] of the [Villain] is a basic title format. I would like to see more evidence that it is an intentional homage. LegoK9 ☎ 22:30, 27 August 2024 (UTC)