Category talk:Murderers

What makes a murderer?

I started to wonder this when I saw this category applied to Death (Timewyrm: Revelation). Is the "murderers" category, as opposed to simply "killers", really appropriate there? I mean, it's literally the embodiment of the concept of death itself so... that's a legal grey area, to say the least. So, I originally planned to discuss this on THAT talk page, but then I thought about it a bit more and it seems to me that due to the DWU's number of robots, incorporeal entities, dictators who literally make the rules so can break them, and other such ambiguous cases as to whether they can legally be called "murderers", it might be hard to maintain the separation of these categories without some violation of T:NPOV. Because it seems by calling, say, Tlotoxl or Helen A "murders" we are making a moral judgement on their actions, since nothing they do in the story is legally murder in their society. And I don't see what else, apart from either a legal or moral distinction, would distinguish a "murderer" and a "killer". So really, is this an actually workable as a distinct category from "killers" under current policy? Even if so, surely we'll at least have to careful who we put there. NightmareofEden ☎ 14:09, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

I agree. Shambala108 ☎ 16:04, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

The idea was that killers would be for people who caused death accidentally or through mind control (ie. through no choice of their own). If it can be taken to be a moral judgment, however (or a strictly legal one), it doesn't pass T:CAT NAME.

Category:Murderers was the earlier category, and is the most populous. Maybe a subcategory with a better name could do the work of specifying "accidental killers" or "murderers while under mind control"?
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 17:10, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

If we do try for a subcategory, to be clear, this is the rule we would endeavour to follow in naming it: "Be as brief as possible, with the understanding that brevity is not always possible." Something like "Murderers while under the influence of mind control" or "Mind-controlled individuals who were used for murder", may be long, but if for example there's no briefer way to put it while remaining clear, that is what we would need to choose.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 17:15, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Ah, I see. That makes more sense. But it also makes it a bit confusing that this category is a subcategory of "killers", along with "executioners", and suchlike. So is this category just for any individuals who have purposefully caused deaths in any context then? NightmareofEden ☎ 21:07, 13 September 2021 (UTC)