Forum:BBV and canon policy: Difference between revisions

::::::Yeah, but that never applied when the producers/script editors created the character. The producers/script editors were under contract to the Beeb, and therefore any of their creations were automatically Beeb copyright. Liz was created by Sherwin/Dicks in very early 1969. Dicks then commissioned Holmes and said, "Right, you've got this new Doctor, a scientist named Liz Shaw (well, actually, she was Liz ''Shore'', then) and the Brigadier. Have fun." So he gets the Autons as his copyright, because Dicks didn't specify that, but not Shaw. According to Shannon Sullivan, scripts for ''Spearhead'' were commissioned only on 3 June 69, but John was cast in July and formally contracted on 28 July. I don't actually know when the scripts were delivered, but filming didn't begin until mid-September. Point is, John was probably cast before Holmes had delivered his scripts, which means he didn't devise the character any more than he has a claim to Jo, Sarah Jane, the Master or Romana, other regular characters for whom he wrote the introductory episodes. The only companions that aren't owned wholly by the BBC are the ones that didn't start out as companions. So, the Brig, K9, Nyssa, Benton, Jago, Litefoot. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}}

:::::::Just moving a tad back to the topic, i think we should keep this stuff but as you argue CzechOut, we need to be clear if we are to include it in canon. My view is that if a non official story doesn't directly contradict another story, we should include it as canon. But if some official story does come along and seem to contradict elements of the story then we should discuss whether to remove the story from canon. --[[User:Revanvolatrelundar|Revan]]\[[User_talk:Revanvolatrelundar|Talk]] 19:32, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

:::I also disagree with the idea of "if a non-official story doesn't contradict another then it should be included", I could point to several thousand examples of fanfic which doesn't ''contradict'' any stories. That doesn't make it canon or what this wiki covers.  

:Thanks for narrowing down the P.R.O.B.E. search.  Here's the exact quote from page 12 of [[DWM 219]]:

::[[Bill Baggs|Bill]]'s previous videos have taken actors from ''Doctor Who'' and used them for his own devices in The Stranger series, and more recently in ''The Airzone Solution''.  "All the films up to now have been like ''Doctor Who'', but they've been actors, not characters from the programme.  This is the first time we've actually got permission from the BBC to use a character from the show.  I telephoned [[BBC Enterprises] with the idea of trying to get permission to use the [[Liz Shaw]] character.  I wasn't sure who actually owned the rights, but we went ahead with using [[Caroline John|Caroline]] anyway, playing a similar character called Abbott.  The Friday before we started filming I got a fax through saying we could use the character as long as the BBC got an acknowledgement at the end.  They didn't even charge me for it!"

::''The Killing Stone'' is harder to definitively prove anything about.  [[DWM 324]], which contains a pretty damning review, doesn't shed much light on the legal picture.  Now, I've heard/got the story itself, but I've long since lost the case and the second disc, on which there was an interview with Richard Franklin.  It's been about ten years since I've heard it, though, and I honestly don't remember how much he talks about the precise situation with ''The Killing Stone''.  But that would be a source of possible info.  I think all that might tell us, though, is that he pitched the story to BBC Books and they rejected it, so that's why he's doing the audio version.  I've done a bit of a web search, but so far I've not been able to come up with anything solid.

::And the thing is, the story is ''huge''.  The implications it has for our understanding of ''Planet of the Spiders'', the Delgado Master, the Doctor's relationship to the hierarchy of UNIT, the relationship of Yates and Benton — we'd have to alter several ''key'' pages to fully integrate the story into the wiki.  And I'm just not prepared to do that unless I know for sure that the BBC approved of the story.

:::As for [[Faction Paradox (series)]], I still think it's got a perfectly good wiki of its own, to which we link on our main page.  We don't need to cover it.  We need to create ample links to '''the wiki that covers it'''.  We're including it only because of the ''subtext''.  We, as long time ''Doctor Who'' readers, are meant to know that this character is the Doctor, that character is Susan, that planet is Gallifrey, etc.  But in terms of its ''actual'' text, it's not got a single thing to do with the ''Doctor Who'' universe.  It'll just be so much easier to administer the wiki if we don't have to deal with "facts" from FP.  Even those users who know FP, like Revan, are tempted to sometimes cross the line and insinuate that the FPU has something to do with the DWU.  Which it actually doesn't.  If someone who didn't know DW read a Faction Paradox novel, they'd have no clue it was making veiled references to the DWU.  I just think it's dangerous o use FP material, save that which appears in the EDAs, on this wiki.  Because when an FPU novel/short story references London, for instance, they're not talking about the London which is in the DWU.  They're talking about a totally different one.  And it's not even a BBC-authorised alternate London, like in ''[[Rise of the Cybermen]]'' or even [[BFDWU]]: ''[[Exile]]''.  It's a London like the one in ''Blakes 7'' or ''Tripods'' or something.  It's very hard to adequately convey that you're talking about an alternate London every time you use the FP prefix.  Most users just don't bother.  They bung in the FP reference and leave it at that, implying that FP stories take place in the DWU.  Which, again, they don't.  

::::Thanks for finding the magazine article, and reproducing it the salient part of it.

::::I think also we should include any major bits of info in the behind the scenes sections, when dealing with stuff that exists in both DWU/FPU, like Compassion, Cwej etc and then of course like off to the FP Wiki. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] / '''[[User talk:Tangerineduel|talk]]''' 13:50, January 20, 2012 (UTC)

:::::I think it should be treated just like we'll treat Star Trek content in the crossover - just mention the stuff that actually appears in DWU stories, same as  e.g. Jean-Luc Picard. Maybe there should be a general crossover policy? [[Special:Contributions/94.75.90.48|94.75.90.48]]^{[[User talk:94.75.90.48#top|talk to me]]} 00:29, February 19, 2012 (UTC)

    

:::Actually, isnt' [[Death's Head]] the first official crossover? [[Special:Contributions/78.8.48.6|78.8.48.6]]^{[[User talk:78.8.48.6#top|talk to me]]} 11:21, February 23, 2012 (UTC)

::::"Crossover" is a bit of a grand word for DH.  Yes, if you follow the Death's Head character from start to finish then you have a connection between the Marvel UK Transformers to the mainstream Marvel universe.  Since the Seventh Doctor is integral to the story of the original Death's Head (he's the one that shrinks DH down to humanoid size with the Master's Tissue Compression Eliminator, and he's the one that dumps DH off on top of the Baxter Building) there is a kind of oblique "crossover" between the DWU and the MU.   

:::::Well, I'd still consider it a crossover, especially if it's between a licensed property and a publisher's own property, or between two properties licensed by one publisher - e.g. I'd call "Aliens vs. Predator" a crossover even if they're officially part of the same universe now. And I believe Marvel calls events like "Infinity Gauntlet" that combine many characters from their own titles a "crossover" too. I don't think any definition of crossover requires the characters to be from different universes. [[Special:Contributions/62.87.247.149|62.87.247.149]]^{[[User talk:62.87.247.149#top|talk to me]]} 20:56, February 24, 2012 (UTC)

:This thread has proved invaluable for noting ''all'' the BBV stories in our databases and determining, one-by-one, whether we wish to continue covering them.  This thread has ''definitely'' been the basis for a lot of positive '''action''' — not, as you seem to suppose, some sort of entrenched warfare between two sides.  Don't be misled by a few recent posts about comics — which actually have nothing to do with the thread topic — or by the fact that Faction Paradox has been a bit of a sticking point. FP is actually a very difficult call; it ''should'' require energetic debate.  

== Putting this thread into action ==

[[The Choice]], [[The Search]] and [[Adventures in a Pocket Universe]] have also gotten some love.  One thing that became evident here was that the disambiguation on the two main characters should follow our standard [[dab]] rules.  So, it's [[K9 (The Choice)]] and [[the Mistress (The Choice)]].  (Why dab the Mistress? Because of [[the Mistress (Warriors of Kudlak)]].)  

:The tables look good. Nice and clear for people reading the articles.

== Killing Zone continued ==