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Talk:The Name of the Doctor (TV story): Difference between revisions
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:Keep in mind that the Silence formed as a result of the prophecy, not because they made the prophecy. Furthermore, it is ''not'' clear what is meant by "silence" in "Silence will fall." It could be the Silence, as seen by their efforts, or it could mean physical silence, either of the Doctor or of the universe. Keep in mind that [[Prisoner Zero]] prophecied, "Silence will fall. The Pandorica is opening." In this case, he meant not the fall of the Silence but the fall of silence on the universe as everything is unmade. If the prophecy was fulfilled in ''Name of the Doctor'', then silence falling would be the disappearance of the stars as time was rewritten. Otherwise, the prophecy is as yet unfulfilled and the falling of silence similar to that at the Pandorica is only a secondary similarity. [[User:Milar Kayne|Milar Kayne]] [[User talk:Milar Kayne|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 03:43, May 20, 2013 (UTC) | :Keep in mind that the Silence formed as a result of the prophecy, not because they made the prophecy. Furthermore, it is ''not'' clear what is meant by "silence" in "Silence will fall." It could be the Silence, as seen by their efforts, or it could mean physical silence, either of the Doctor or of the universe. Keep in mind that [[Prisoner Zero]] prophecied, "Silence will fall. The Pandorica is opening." In this case, he meant not the fall of the Silence but the fall of silence on the universe as everything is unmade. If the prophecy was fulfilled in ''Name of the Doctor'', then silence falling would be the disappearance of the stars as time was rewritten. Otherwise, the prophecy is as yet unfulfilled and the falling of silence similar to that at the Pandorica is only a secondary similarity. [[User:Milar Kayne|Milar Kayne]] [[User talk:Milar Kayne|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 03:43, May 20, 2013 (UTC) | ||
:: No, because as you said, "silence will fall" is the Silence's response to the actual prophecy, which makes no mention of silence. "Silence will fall" is the Silence's core belief; their mission statement. As Dorium said, "silence must fall," and the Doctor "must never reach Trenzalore." The Doctor himself later realized that it was his silence that was meant to fall when the Question was asked, and modeled the scenario for Churchill. "Suppose there were a man who knew a secret... how would you erase that secret from the world before it could be spoken?" Churchill said that if he had to, he would "destroy the man," to which the Doctor responded, "and silence would fall." His silence, because if he were dead, he could no longer answer the Question. The Silence wants him dead before he gets to Trenzalore so that he can't answer the Question. "Silence" has no relation to the actual prophecy or to the stars going out when the GI corrupts his timeline. ''Those'' are the things that the Silence wishes to avert. For | :: No, because as you said, "silence will fall" is the Silence's response to the actual prophecy, which makes no mention of silence. "Silence will fall" is the Silence's core belief; their mission statement. As Dorium said, "silence must fall," and the Doctor "must never reach Trenzalore." The Doctor himself later realized that it was his silence that was meant to fall when the Question was asked, and modeled the scenario for Churchill. "Suppose there were a man who knew a secret... how would you erase that secret from the world before it could be spoken?" Churchill said that if he had to, he would "destroy the man," to which the Doctor responded, "and silence would fall." His silence, because if he were dead, he could no longer answer the Question. The Silence wants him dead before he gets to Trenzalore so that he can't answer the Question. "Silence" has no relation to the actual prophecy or to the stars going out when the GI corrupts his timeline. ''Those'' are the things that the Silence wishes to avert. For silence to fall is simply what the Silence wishes to make happen; they want silence to fall when the Question is asked, and they intended to make it happen by killing the Doctor prematurely and making it so that he will not be able to speak his name at Trenzalore. [[User:Ensephylon|Ensephylon]] [[User talk:Ensephylon|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 03:54, May 20, 2013 (UTC) | ||
::: So basically the Silence modified the prophecy to fit their own uses? What you seem to be saying (and I may be completely misunderstanding) is that the Silence tried to kill him to prevent him from getting to a fixed point in his own timeline and to keep him from revealing his name. However, it seems to me that your interpretation contradicts itself, since they are trying to avert the prophecy by causing his silence to fall ''early''--an act that would destroy the universe anyway. Thus, I think that interpreting "Silence will fall" as referring to the death of the universe is at least an alternative theory, even if it is not confirmed yet as being the proper one. [[User:Milar Kayne|Milar Kayne]] [[User talk:Milar Kayne|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 04:09, May 20, 2013 (UTC) | ::: So basically the Silence modified the prophecy to fit their own uses? What you seem to be saying (and I may be completely misunderstanding) is that the Silence tried to kill him to prevent him from getting to a fixed point in his own timeline and to keep him from revealing his name. However, it seems to me that your interpretation contradicts itself, since they are trying to avert the prophecy by causing his silence to fall ''early''--an act that would destroy the universe anyway. Thus, I think that interpreting "Silence will fall" as referring to the death of the universe is at least an alternative theory, even if it is not confirmed yet as being the proper one. [[User:Milar Kayne|Milar Kayne]] [[User talk:Milar Kayne|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 04:09, May 20, 2013 (UTC) | ||
:::: No, that's not what I'm saying. "Silence must fall" isn't a prophecy, it's a belief. The Silence ''believe'' that the Doctor must never reach Trenzalore and that his silence must fall when the Question is asked. If they kill him before he can get to Trenzalore, then when the Question is asked, it will be met with silence, because the only person who can answer the Question (aside from River, who everyone seems to forget to account for but who wouldn't be there anyway if the Doctor were dead) is dead. However, they failed to kill him, so he went to Trenzalore, and, had River not intervened and answered for him, he would have answered the GI's question and given him access to the tomb. That's what the Silence want to prevent by killing the Doctor early, because if the GI invades the Doctor's tomb, he will undo all of the good deeds that the Doctor did and cause the universe to break down. As the "sentinels of history," they would probably want to keep it safe. Simply killing the Doctor at Lake Silencio won't cause the universe to collapse (or at least it wouldn't have, if River had done as she was supposed to), and all of the worlds that he saved would still be there. However, if the GI goes into the Doctor's timeline (which he can only do if the Question is answered), he tears apart the Doctor's history and endangers all of time and space. Killing the Doctor at Lake Silencio is the lesser of two evils, as it prevents the Doctor from being able to answer the Question and giving the GI access to his tomb. The original, actual prophecy makes no mention of silence falling, so that isn't something that would normally be fulfilled at Trenzalore. Silence would only have fallen if the Silence had succeeded in killing the Doctor before he could get to Trenzalore. [[User:Ensephylon|Ensephylon]] [[User talk:Ensephylon|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 05:03, May 20, 2013 (UTC) | |||
I think this is set after the time of the Silence fall on Trenzalore. The Doctor fought the Silence there causing them to fall, but maybe this caused his final death and as he was dying he requested the tomb to be built and sealed it with his name.[[User:A-Smk|A-Smk]] [[User talk:A-Smk|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 23:08, May 19, 2013 (UTC) | I think this is set after the time of the Silence fall on Trenzalore. The Doctor fought the Silence there causing them to fall, but maybe this caused his final death and as he was dying he requested the tomb to be built and sealed it with his name.[[User:A-Smk|A-Smk]] [[User talk:A-Smk|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 23:08, May 19, 2013 (UTC) | ||
