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This should allow a good discussion as to whether this counts as an appearance for the Curator. It was mentioned at [[Thread:141930]] that there should be a line in terms of first person storytelling, but obviously that thread has yet to reach a conclusion. I'd argue that this is well on the side of "not an appearance" but I'm unsure how to handle this when that thread isn't even nearly at completion, and won't be for some time. [[User:Danochy|Danochy]] [[User talk:Danochy|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:46, November 2, 2020 (UTC) | This should allow a good discussion as to whether this counts as an appearance for the Curator. It was mentioned at [[Thread:141930]] that there should be a line in terms of first person storytelling, but obviously that thread has yet to reach a conclusion. I'd argue that this is well on the side of "not an appearance" but I'm unsure how to handle this when that thread isn't even nearly at completion, and won't be for some time. [[User:Danochy|Danochy]] [[User talk:Danochy|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:46, November 2, 2020 (UTC) | ||
:Don’t think that this should count as an appearance. He was only mentioned, and in a single sentence. [[User:PoolsideJazz|PoolsideJazz]] [[User talk:PoolsideJazz|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:48, November 2, 2020 (UTC) | :Don’t think that this should count as an appearance. He was only mentioned, and in a single sentence. [[User:PoolsideJazz|PoolsideJazz]] [[User talk:PoolsideJazz|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:48, November 2, 2020 (UTC) | ||
:: Gonna echo that. I'd say that's a mention. Not an appearance, as the character is not there in the story and it's not a flashback. It's well within the framing device, and the story does not stray from its main setting to tell the story of this interaction with the Curator.{{User:SOTO/sig}} 22:58, November 2, 2020 (UTC) | |||
:::[edit conflict] | |||
::@[[User:Danochy|Danochy]], I appreciate you taking this to the talk page! And it is doubly appreciated that you went back to the source and provided the original quote. | |||
::Now, personally I ''would'' err on the side of calling this an appearance, but in the interest of transparency, the sentence was a little more positive in my memory than it actually is. There ''is'', as you say, ample room for debate. But it's not clear-cut in either direction. For example, I would call m'lord's attention to the fact that the illustration of the story depicts Black standing by the ''Gallifrey'' painting. This could be taken as suggesting the anecdote about the Curator showing to him ''is'' meant to be an essential element of the "plot" (such as it is). Also, @[[User:PoolsideJazz|PoolsideJazz]], ''length'' of appearance is immaterial. A two-second cameo in a TV story is still an appearance; by the same token a one-line cameo in a short story is also an appearance, ''if'' we establish that line to be narrative in nature, rather than merely an offhand mention that's not actually part of the plot. | |||
::However, as you also say yourself it is hard to have that debate when [[Thread:141930]] has yet to conclude. I would say [[T:BOUND]] applies: however we ''currently'' list appearances on a given story page should not be altered based on such concerns as "when does first-person narration start counting?" until we have set clear standards. | |||
::Ergo, as the page ''[[Dr Black (short story)|Dr Black]]'' was created with the understanding that it ''did'' feature "[[The Curator]]", we should stick with that until [[Thread:141930]]. But conversely, if even a very similar quote in another story has ''not'', thus far, been treated as an appearance on that story's page, then neither should that state of affairs be altered. | |||
::Therefore, ''Dr Black''’s appearances list isn't to be edited until further notice. But let none of this deter users from posting more thoughts and/or evidence and/or precedents on this talk page. They might come in handy later. --[[User:Scrooge MacDuck|Scrooge MacDuck]] [[User talk:Scrooge MacDuck|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:54, November 2, 2020 (UTC) | |||
:::I'll defer to my fellow admin who's ''read the story'' for now, and come back to this later.{{User:SOTO/sig}} 23:03, November 2, 2020 (UTC) | |||
::There’s no more evidence though? There was a single sentence mentioning the National Gallery’s Curator (potentially not even the same one, perhaps the gallery got another Curator?). The character did not appear outside this mention. [[User:PoolsideJazz|PoolsideJazz]] [[User talk:PoolsideJazz|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 23:08, November 2, 2020 (UTC) | |||
:::Can I just say that dear lord we need to get on DPLForums as soon as possible? [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 23:29, November 2, 2020 (UTC) | |||
:::: I cannot agree more. <div style="background-color:#0E234E; border: solid 0.5px gold; display: inline; white-space: nowrap;">[[doctorwho:user:Epsilon the Eternal|<span style="background:#0E234E; color:white"><tt>'''Epsilon'''</tt></span>]]''' '''[[User talk:Epsilon the Eternal|📯]] [[doctorwho:special:Contributions/Epsilon the Eternal|📂]]</div> 23:31, November 2, 2020 (UTC) | |||
