Talk:First Doctor/Appearances

separate various short story appearances

can someone please separate the short stories? lumping together the Short Trips stories and the Decalog seems pretty arbitrary, for instance. --Stardizzy2 23:12, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

why I removed CAMPAIGN

as a non-professionally published work I don't think it belongs here on this list. this does not have anything to do with the literary merit of the novel, only with its official status. --Stardizzy2 18:34, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

The Eleventh Hour

Should the Series 5 episode the Eleventh Hour count as an appearance because of the images that are shown of the previous 10 doctors? Skywalker2255 ☎ 19:23, October 3, 2015 (UTC)

Not the first Doctor

Given that Chibnall has had the genius idea of introducing pre-Hartnell Doctors, shouldn’t we rename this page since he isn’t the first anymore. It was OK the keep the names the same for The War Doctor, since he didn’t call himself the Doctor, so Nine was still the Ninth ‘Doctor’, (although we do call him ‘The War DOCTOR’, that’s just a fan nickname). However, we have seen pre-Hartnell incarnations be referred to, and refer to themselves as ‘the Doctor’, so this name is now inaccurate lol. Oh, and if you’re going to reply to this to white whine about how your favourite senile old racist white man doesn’t get to be the First Doctor anymore, or mansplain about how AKSYSHUALFHSY he is, don’t. Basically, if you’re a Moff Bro, I don’t need your input. People like you are the reason Biden won, with your refusal to support Liz Warren and Trump will win, with your refusal to support Biden. Although I’d easily support either Biden or Trump over B*rnie. But I digress. My point is, this guy ain’t the first Doctor no more. 31.48.204.142^{talk to me} 17:45, April 15, 2020 (UTC)

He is called "the First Doctor" by several in-universe sources. He may or may not be "the first Doctor" in-universe, but he is certainly often called that; the name therefore remains accurate. It would be a ridiculously massive undertaking to change every link and mention of this Doctor on this Wiki to another title and I frankly don't see us ever doing it, for purely practical reasons if nothing else.

Also, we'd seen pre-Hartnell incarnations calling themselves the Doctor long ago, without it changing how we named the page for the Hartnell incarnation. And indeed, we technically haven't had Chibnall had any pre-Hartnell Doctors yet; it's not been outright confirmed that the "Fugitive" Doctor is pre-Hartnell rather than e.g. Season 6B, even if that doe seem to be the most likely answer to the mystery.

Also also, we hold all sources to be equal; while The Timeless Children (and The Brain of Morbius, and others) may suggest Hartnell wasn't the first Doctor, we also have sources explicitly telling us the opposite, including stories from the 1960's where the Doctor was a human scientist called Dr. Who (which are as valid as anything else).

Also also also, why do you bring this up on this talk page of all places? Why not Talk:First Doctor, or better yet, the forums?

Also also also also (…just one more and I'm done, I promise), if not First Doctor, what would you call the page? The Doctor (An Unearthly Child)? It's not as though Chibnall (or anyone else) has given us a new numbering.

Also also also also also (there, I promise that's the final one), the Wiki's policy prevents personal attacks. I am not an administrator, and I don't know if any specific comments you made count as personal attacks (the derogatory phrase "Moffat bro" might… What do you mean, anyway, in this instance? Moffat embraced the retcon of Hartnell not having been the First Doctor), but you could do to use a much less confrontational tone. And to not make assumption about the gender of the editors of this Wiki ("mansplain"), their political leanings (that whole off-topic tangent about the U.S. Presidential campaign), or indeed their nationality (this is a Wiki about a primarily British franchise, to begin with).

Good day! I hope your concerns have been alleviated. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 17:55, April 15, 2020 (UTC)

Licensing

I notice that "From Wildthyme with Love" is listed here, but surely we should follow precedent set by Cosmic Hobo, since that story wasn't licensed to use the Doctor. NightmareofEden ☎ 17:08, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Indeed. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 17:35, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

But stories like Interference and Buyer's Remorse feature Iris Wildthyme and they didn't have the license to use Iris.

They featured Iris, but didn't name her.

From Wildthyme with Love featured the First Doctor, but didn't name him.

So how can one of these be allowed when the other isn't? Precedent goes both ways.

Epsilon📯 📂

18:16, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

There is no evidence that these stories weren't licensed to use Iris Wildthyme, but if it turned out, with a reliable source, that they in fact weren't, then indeed the precedent would be to not list them as appearances of Iris! Two (dubious) examples of other instances of the same apparent mistake do not constitute "precedent" that contradicts the Wiki's established policies on how to handle such matters. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 18:28, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Does this also apply to the two stories listed under Thirteenth Doctor - list of appearances#Lethbridge-Stewart? Danochy ☎ 22:34, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Given that is literally where "Cosmic Hobo" comes from, I would say it should be removed, but I don't actually know the details of her appearance in those stories, so I'm unsure how we SHOULD handle it instead. NightmareofEden ☎ 20:20, 13 December 2021 (UTC)