Talk:First Doctor/Archive 2

	This page is an archive. Please do not make any edits here. Edit the active conversation only.

Picky picky picky

This page appears to be very biased against the books of Doctor Who. It references sources with the phrase "One account..." starting it off for no reason. I noticed it did such with a statement about the group he was in in collage, despite the fact that no source suggests that he WASN'T in such group. I don't think it's enough to add the cleanup template,but it does need to wb remedied. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 01:35, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

I think you're wrong. It's not a matter of being biased against the books. It's a matter of marking those things which are noted in one book, but contradicted or completely unremarked elsewhere. We use the phraseology "according to one sourse" or "one account claimed" to indicate a truth: this statement has factually been mentioned by only one source. This is important, because it lets readers know that the statement may not have widespread applicability across several stories. Its usage is not limited to statements derived from books, and indeed can be used to highlight contradictions that are inherent in the televised stories, as well.

Please do not edit such statements, unless you can prove that the statement does not come from just one source.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍ 16:43: Wed 29 Feb 2012 

I think you Mis-understand what I meant. It makes sense to me to use the "one account" statement when contradiction exsists, but when it dosen't, there is no use on the term. At one point, hits article used the opening to describe that the Doctor belonged to the house of the Lungbarrow, without showing suggestion that this has any contradiction. It would be like if I were to post this on the page,

According to one account, the Doctor and the Master were in a band of Gallifrey. (PROSE: Deadly Reunion)

In such's case, I provided no evidence that the Master and the Doctor WERE NOT in band on Gallifrey from another story, so there is no point in my "According to one account" interjection. This was my argument above. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 20:27, February 29, 2012 (UTC)

Nope, didn't misunderstand you. There's nothing factually inaccurate about the statement you've given. You're inferring something the phrase doesn't actually imply. I think you believe it means something negative. It doesn't. It means that the fact which follows it occurs in only one narrative. That's a neutral statement. The point of the phrase is to alert the reader that the statement appears in only one place. There's nothing wrong with that construction. How else are you going to indicate that sentiment? Just making a statement and ending it with a citation doesn't mean that the statement was only given in that one source. For instance,

The Doctor had stolen a TARDIS. (TV: The Big Bang)

does not mean that the only place you will find that information is The Big Bang. The only real way to say "it only happened in this one story" is to, well, come out and say it. But just because you say "according to one account", that doesn't mean it's invalid. It just means it's obscure. For instance, there's a bit at the beginning of the Susan Campbell article from Roses, which explains that Susan's real Gallifreyan name is "Rose". I absolutely adore that fact. It's not contradicted anywhere. I think it's rock solid true. But I still put an "according to one source" construction around it, because it comes from the decidedly obscure source of a Brief Encounter.

And this is a usage I often employ: info that is rather far away from anything televised can usefully take the "according to" treatment, under the assumption that most readers will never have encountered the fact. By using the "according to" phraseology, readers will then understand why they haven't heard it, either. It's not at all bias against the novels, as you've alleged. Rather, it's helping the average reader of the site not feel like an idiot for not having read Roses or something equally obscure.

Of course, it's most often used when there are multiple accounts of the same fact, but it doesn't have to be. If I say:

According to Sarah Jane Smith, the sonic lipstick came from the Doctor.

that doesn't mean she's lying. I'm just giving a specific source for the information that helps the reader tie down that fact. If you read into that a possibility of deception or ignorance — that is, if you believe that statement means that SJS is stupid for believing that — that's kinda your own problem. Just pointing out the source of information doesn't have any implications for the veracity of the info.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍ 14:38: Sun 04 Mar 2012 

Michael Gough?

When did Michael Gough voice the Doctor?Retsinif ^{talk to me} 15:34, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

The Celestial Toymaker. --24.60.0.191^{talk to me} 17:50, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

Could you please go into more detail?Retsinif ^{talk to me} 18:33, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

In the final scene of the story, the Doctor has to send the game he and the Toymaker are playing to the end from inside the TARDIS. In order to do this, he has to imitate the Toymaker's voice, which he does, but it is obviously just Gough's voice dubbed over. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 19:50, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

But he isn't playing the Doctor, it's the Doctor impersonating the toymaker. I mean: are we going to start saying Nick Courtney played the Master because the Master impersonated him on phone in The Time Monster and the line was dubbed by Nick? No! That would be utterly idiotic, just as it is to claim Gough played the Doctor. 219.90.168.137^{talk to me} 13:55, April 19, 2012 (UTC)

So are you arguing that it wasn't Gough playing the doctor, it was Gough playing the doctor impersonating the Doctor. Well, it's still Gough voicing the Doctor. And yes, if there is a provable instance of what you just said, it needs to added to the actors list. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 16:33, April 19, 2012 (UTC)

But surely he was still playing the Toymaker's voice, even if the Doctor was speaking it, it wasn't the Doctor's own voice so he can't really be considered to have played the Doctor. 219.90.232.164^{talk to me} 05:34, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

No... It was the Doctor doing a perfect imitation of the Toymaker. It wasn't the toy aker at all. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 14:35, April 25, 2012 (UTC)

Mire and Clay

Hi. I just noticed that you've included a brief summary of Mire and Clay in a section which places it after Susan's departure. I've just read this story as part of my massive marathon and I can confirm that Susan is still travelling with them at this point. She is mentioned on page 16 and then appears in the final scene from page 24 onwards. --The Doctor ☎ 17:27, April 20, 2013 (UTC)

The Name of the Doctor

Who played the first Doctor in the latest episode? -- 65.94.76.126^{talk to me} 14:10, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

In the colourised portions where he's at the TARDIS at the very start and confronted by Clara at the end it's William Hartnell. The footage was taken from The Aztecs (TV story) and edited to remove all of the background. --Tangerineduel / talk 14:40, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

Furthermore, the Doctors who run by Clara at the very end when she's stuck in the Doctor's time stream are all played by uncredited actors. TARDIStraveler ☎ 14:42, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

Beginning of a war with the Daleks

This segment seems kind of speculatory. The Daleks was more of an expedition to retrieve a key component of the TARDIS where a nuclear weapon happened to be stopped, and I don't think the Daleks' deaths nor the Thals being called to arms were done by the Doctor. Plus, does the Doctor running into them again really count as a single centuries-long war? Would we say the same for the Master or the Cybermen? -- Tybort (talk page) 15:48, June 3, 2013 (UTC)

However, this adventure began a centuries-long war between the Doctor and the Daleks, as he would go on to battle them thousands of times in his future, and they would gradually become his greatest enemies. (TV: The Daleks)

When did they arrive in Totters Lane?

In 1962, the Doctor and Susan took up residence in a Totters Lane junkyard in Shoreditch, London to allow Susan to complete her education, and so the Doctor could effect repairs and build missing components for the TARDIS. (TV: An Unearthly Child, PROSE: Time and Relative)

Does Time and Relative or any story mention a specific month when Susan and the Doctor either arrived in or departed from 20th century London? Because in An Unearthly Child (which says 1963, but not any specific month) Susan mentions something about loving the preceding five months when she demands the Doctor that she stays behind, implying that that's how long they've been there. -- Tybort (talk page) 01:27, November 22, 2013 (UTC)

If that episode was set in November, when it aired, then it would still be 1963 when they arrived there. I definitely think that it shouldn't say 1962 unless someone can cite an episode where that was mentioned (and I believe that there is no such thing). There's more chance of it being 1963 than not.  Digifiend  Talk  PR/SS  KR  MH  Toku  JD  Garo  TH  CG  UM  Logos  CLG  DW  01:33,22/11/2013 

PROSE: The Rag & Bone Man's Story has them arriving some time in 1962. I don't know the month; I'll have to dig out my copy and check when I get a chance to see if it's included. Shambala108 ☎ 01:43, November 22, 2013 (UTC)

"An Adventure in Space and Time"

What's wrong with adding the actor from the docudrama? He obviously acted as "The Doctor" in the scenes where they recreated scenes from the original episodes. -- 70.24.244.51^{talk to me} 06:43, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

There is a difference, though it can be hard to see. The docudrama actor never acted as the Doctor, he only acted as William Hartnell. While in character as William Hartnell, he acted as the Doctor, but he never acted as the Doctor in any DW story. Shambala108 ☎ 15:20, November 24, 2013 (UTC)

Unlineared the personality

I ahve just unlineared the personality section. Please let me know if there is anything you would alter.

Infobox picture

Surely there are screenshots/telesnaps of the First Doctor in colour?--104.32.214.184^{talk to me} 03:33, June 9, 2014 (UTC)

The only ones would be from The Three Doctors or of Richard Hurndall in The Five Doctors. There are many far better screenshots from Hartnell's B/W stories. Shambala108 ☎ 11:57, June 9, 2014 (UTC)

I suppose it would be against wiki rules to use a picture from one of Babelcolour's colourisations, even if we got permission from him? ScotchAutopilot ☎ 18:39, June 9, 2014 (UTC)

That is correct, as detailed at Tardis:Guide to images#No colourisation allowed, Help:Image cheat card and Forum:Images Policy. Shambala108 ☎ 18:50, June 9, 2014 (UTC)

Young First Doctor

Spoilers for "Listen" but I was stunned and amazed when they had the First Doctor as a child in the ending scene. It made me do research on William Hartnell and I found this photograph of a young William Hartnell so I thought I'd share.

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/uploads/MichaelTodd/2010-05-30_053419_YoungHartnell.jpg

I suppose we could think of it as the Doctor's academy graduation photo.:)

This is also on the howling. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 92.15.143.31 (talk). 15:33, September 15, 2014 (UTC)