Talk:Ninth Doctor/Appearances

The Ninth Doctor in The Albino's Dancer

Is the Ninth Doctor actually in The Albino's Dancer? I can't see any reference on respective wiki page.

Epsilon the Eternal ☎ 16:47, June 18, 2020 (UTC)

He's referred to as "the Navvie" for legal reason.BananaClownMan ☎ 17:01, June 18, 2020 (UTC)

Isn't that like how Professor Stream was meant to be The Master? And the wiki seperated those two, so why have these characters been merged? Especially as I doubt the Time Hunter series had the licence to use the Ninth Doctor.

Epsilon the Eternal ☎ 17:16, June 18, 2020 (UTC)

Well, they have the license to use the "Cabinet of Light" Doctor, who may or may not be a Ninth Doctor, although they do not have the license to have him go by the name of "the Doctor". (It's complicated.) But no, I don't think they have the right to use the Ninth Doctor.

That being said, this may be a similar situation to the mention of a Cyberman (by name) in one line in An Ordinary Man. Single-line references do not break copyright law, and as near I can tell, the conclusion of the debate at Talk:Legacies (short story) was that this Wiki acknowledged this.

So either "the Navvie" is a really really minor mention which we can link to Ninth Doctor, or it is a sufficiently important character that we use the "precedent of Stream (The Hollows of Time) or The War King, and create a separate page. I'm not sure which. If it's the former, then a minor but physical appearance could still warrant being placed on this LOA, as it was decided long ago that this Wiki doesn't acknowledge "cameos", and considers all physical appearances to "count".--Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 17:25, June 18, 2020 (UTC)

Table

I'm not sure if this was discussed and decided against in the forum, but might it look tidier if some of the identical cells were merged? Jack "BtR" Saxon ☎ 16:28, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Title	Medium	Series	Author	Valid	Release date
The Tomorrow Windows	Novel	BBC Eighth Doctor Adventures	Jonathan Morris		7 June 2004
The Trip of a Lifetime	Trailer	Doctor Who series trailers	Ben Friend, Anton Ezer		15 March 2005
Blue Peter special 2005	1-minute skit	Blue Peter	Matt Baker		21 March 2005
Have You Seen This Man?	Website narrative	Who is Doctor Who?	Various		24 March 2005
Rose	TV story	Doctor Who Series 1	Russell T Davies		26 March 2005
The Love Invasion	Comic story	Doctor Who Magazine comic	Gareth Roberts and Clayton Hickman		31 March - 28 May 2005
The End of the World	TV story	Doctor Who Series 1	Russell T Davies		2 April 2005
The Unquiet Dead			Mark Gatiss		9 April 2005
Aliens of London / World War Three			Russell T Davies		16 April - 23 April 2005
Dalek			Robert Shearman		30 April 2005
The Long Game			Russell T Davies		7 May 2005
Father's Day			Paul Cornell		14 May 2005
The Clockwise Man	Novel	BBC New Series Adventures	Justin Richards		19 May 2005
The Monsters Inside			Stephen Cole
Winner Takes All			Jacqueline Rayner
The Empty Child / The Doctor Dances	TV story	Doctor Who Series 1	Steven Moffat		21 May-28 May 2005
Boom Town			Russell T Davies		4 June 2005
Bad Wolf / The Parting of the Ways					11 June-18 June 2005

Important format notes

• Per the final forum thread ruling, the validity column isn't needed.
• We're supposed to keep the order of stories the same across media. If people want to sort them by release order, they can click that button.
• As Jack "BtR" Saxon highlights, it's best practices to merge cells.
• We don't take a stance on whether The Kingmaker was licensed or not. If it's a released story that we cover, we either put it on the table or we don't.

At some point we'll have to figure out what to do with {{doctor appearances}}, since as it is it squeezes the entire table in an ugly way. – n8 (☎) 16:50, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

As an update unrelated to the below discussion, I've converted {{doctor appearances}} into a bottom-of-page navbox rather than a top-of-page infobox to resolve the formatting issue. – n8 (☎) 16:41, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Can we PLEASE put stuff in release order instead of just dumping stuff randomly in just so you can merge some of the columns? Danniesen ☎ 17:16, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

That’s not directed at you particularly Nate. It was just a general note. Danniesen ☎ 17:18, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

On the topic of the order, what dictates the order in which the different media are listed? At the moment, it isn't alphabetical nor does it start with novels audios as it would if it were in a chronological order of which medium he appeared in first. If that makes sense. Jack "BtR" Saxon ☎ 17:25, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

It should be in order of release. That would make the most sense to the reader. Sorting by the subject’s timeline just makes it too messy, and alphabetical order is also bollocks as it isn’t a list of character names which are usually sorted in alphabetical order by surname first. Danniesen ☎ 20:25, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Oh… never mind Jack. I read your comment wrong. I personally think it should be TV stories first because that was the media that the franchise began with. Danniesen ☎ 20:28, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Given that we're supposed to treat all media equal to TV, I think it has to be "Audio, Novels, TV", in chronological order or be in the order of when the character first appeared in each medium. Jack "BtR" Saxon ☎ 20:32, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Eehh… personally I liked the way it was ordered on the bullet lists. Also, I’d like to think that first and foremost when looking for a character (one that made themselves most and best known in TV stories) should have TV stories appear first because that’s what the reader would want to see first. Just my opinion. Danniesen ☎ 20:44, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, the order is just the same as it's always been. I don't think the precedent has been written up anywhere, but the general rule seems to be "primary medium first": the list for a primarily prose-based character like Compassion goes prose, then audio; whereas the list for a primarily TV-based character like Missy goes TV, then audio, then prose and the rest. Again, I'm just approximating, since this hasn't been codified, but I think there's a good practical logic to it.

In any case, Tardis:Temporary forums/Archive/Lists of Appearances explicitly didn't address anything about the order in which stories are presented. We would need another forum thread to change this precedent. – n8 (☎) 20:47, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

I've never quite understood what we mean by "primary medium". The Eighth Doctor, for instance, has appeared in a tonne of audios but TV and Webcast come first on his appearances page. I definitely think we need some sort of rule. Jack "BtR" Saxon ☎ 20:54, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

The TV movie is his first, that’s where he was "born", so to speak. And the mini-episodes have also typically gone along with TV appearances, making it appear along with normal length episodes. Danniesen ☎ 20:58, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I'm aware that the TV Movie was his first appearance, but we've established that they don't go in release order. Jack "BtR" Saxon ☎ 20:59, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Well, I hope we’re planning to do a table for each section, not just one long table with all appearances in the franchise as a whole. Danniesen ☎ 21:02, 1 February 2023 (UTC)